Ep 3 | KATHRYN MARSH Transcript

Voices of a Killer Podcast: 

Ep 3 | Kathryn Marsh Transcript

Before we begin this podcast, please be advised that the following episode contains language that some listeners may find offensive and inappropriate. The opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not reflect the views of the podcast producers. Listener discretion is advised.

What she did was terrible. The 40 year old man she hit, Matthew Baker, did not survive. Saturday, prosecutors charged the woman Kathryn Marsh with second degree murder. It was a sad day to begin with. How'd that make you feel? I'm gonna live with it for the rest of my life. So whether it's 10 years, 20 years, however long it was, it unfortunately, I don't think any time's gonna be enough.

It's not gonna bring him back. So the first time that you struck him, were you going forwards or backwards? I don't know why someone would do that. It still confuses me. It was just very intense, very crazy. I'm just shocked that it happened. What were you telling him? Uh, how much I love him and to hang on.

You are now listening to the podcast voices of a Killer. I'm bringing you the stories from the perspective of the people that have taken the life of another human in their current situation thereafter in prison. You'll see that although these are the folks that we have been programmed to hate, they all have something in common.

They are all humans like us that admit that they made a mistake. Will you forgive them or will you condemn them? They're currently serving time for their murders, and they give us an inside glimpse of what took place when they killed and their feelings on the matter. Now, here are the voices of those who have killed.

On this episode of Voices of a Killer on a fateful day in 2019 in Chesterfield, Missouri, Kathryn Marsh and her boyfriend, Matthew Baker, were out drinking together. A tragedy struck when Kathryn ran over Matthew with a truck in the parking lot of a restaurant. At first, it was thought to be an accident, but as the investigation unfolded, doubts were raised about the circumstances of Matthew's death.

We'll hear about the development of Kathryn and Matthew's relationship, the events of that tragic moment and the consequences of Kathryn's actions. So sit back, listen closely as we'll, seek to uncover the truth and shed light on the devastating consequences of a single moment of recklessness that led to the heartbreaking incident that has left many wondering what truly happened on that fateful day.

So, Kathryn, where are you from? I grew up in St Louis, all over the place. How would you describe your childhood growing up at home? Great. My dad was an alcoholic, but there wasn't negativity or bad things about the alcoholism of him that we saw as kids. Uh, he was always a happy drunk and a good guy, but I did grow up in a very, very, very poor environment to where I moved a whole lot as a kid.

Like I've, I probably went to maybe six different schools. By the time I, uh, got affiliated with one mom and dad would move out and go somewhere else. Do you think that had a lasting negative effect on you? Oh, absolutely. 100%. I've always tried to fit in everywhere I went, I was bullied a lot. You know, being the new girl, a lot of girls didn't like me.

I have, I mean, if you look at my friend's status, I'm. Usually got a lot of adult male friends, cuz the women hate me. I'm not trying to be like sounding vain I guess, but like, and I was not an ugly girl, so, you know, the boys liked me, the girls hated me. You know, that's kinda like how it was. And I always earned for that female friendship and I never got it.

So it was pretty hard. Did you ever witness any, uh, violence whenever you were a little kid or growing up? I've had to always protect myself. I would have to say I pretty much have, every time that I had moved to a different environment since fourth grade, I have always had to fight my way through it, you know?

Um, girls would push me into lockers and I fight him. Did you ever have any instances where you were young and weapons were involved? No, not at all. Yeah. Did you ever see your parents get violent? No, never. My parents were married for 50 years and never been violent with each other. No. Yeah. And when did you first move outta your parents' house?

I was 16 and moved in with my sister, my older sister. How many siblings do you have? I have five. There's six of us. Do you have a relationship with 'em? What? What do they think about your, uh, situation now? I have a great relationship with all of them. My older brother, the oldest one outta the sixth, he's pretty like singled out from everybody, but that's kind of his choice.

But my family, they are always there. Probably more of an enabler because they're always there. They've helped me every month than I've been in prison. I've had 100% support system from them. They don't know a lot or understand a lot about what's happened to me in my life, but. They know who I am. We're a close Italian Sicilian family.

They could be mad at us, but if I needed something tomorrow, I would be there. A close-knit family is one of the vital parts of being able to survive both in and out of prison. As we delve deeper into the story of Kathryn, it becomes clear that despite her difficult upbringing, she has a strong support network in the form of her siblings.

Growing up in poverty with an alcoholic father, Kathryn's childhood was far from easy. But through it all, her siblings remained a constant source of support and love. Now, even as she sits in prison, they continue to stand by her side doing whatever they can do to help her through this difficult time.

It's a testament to the power of family and the bonds that can keep us together, even the darkest of times. But I wanted to find out more about her bond with the victim, as we've already alluded to in the intro to this podcast. The uncertainty surrounding the events leading up to Matthew's death adds to the intrigue.

Was there motivation behind Kathryn's actions, or was it an accident between two lovers? Perhaps delving into how their relationship developed could shed some light on the tragedy of that day. So Matthew was the victim of this case. You met him in 2016. How did y'all meet? I was actually cleaning a office building. And at that office building, he was getting registered in the state of Missouri for his environmental cleaning company. And he asked me for my card so that his company could call, you know, might use me as a contractor outside to help do their final clean. And about five days after I gave him my card, he called me and asked me out on a date.

So whenever he gave you the card, did it seem like he was more interested in just getting your number? Not really. I actually thought he was legitimately just gonna hire my company as an outsider to come do his cleans for work. So, yeah, I'm not sure. What did you think about him whenever you met him like that?

Did you, were you attracted to him? No, I actually was not attracted to him at first. Not like that at all. I actually kinda thought he was a nerdy, dorky little guy, to be honest with you. And he called, you asked to date, and you said, I told him I was at the Ameristar Casino cause I was getting ready to go see the Chris Stapleton concert the next night.

And I had a hotel at the Ameristar where the concerts are. And, uh, I told him if he wanted to come up there and have a few drinks at the casino with me, he was more welcome to, and he came up and we got know each other and he was a pretty cool guy. Yeah. Y'all drank together that night and got to know each other?

Yes, and then we ended up staying at the casino until about three in the morning and then he had to leave cause he was catching a flight out to Arkansas at like six that morning. Did you find him attractive at this point? You know, I found him interesting enough as far as attraction, uh, not quite yet, but I also was just conversational.

It was more of a just getting to know each other. We had a lot in common. You know, I kind of thought that he was, he was a really, really cool guy at that point. Did y'all get physical with each other? No. Not even a good night kiss. Yeah. How long after that did you hear from him or did you contact him?

Well, he flew to Arkansas that day to get his truck because he just got divorced like a month prior to that. And he had a lot of stuff still back at the house that he would shared with his ex-wife. And after he picked up his truck, he was driving back through the state of Missouri and he just called me and asked me if I wanted to meet up and he actually came over to my house that night.

Oh wow. And yeah, my kids were gone and so he just met me there. And then him and I went out and had a nice dinner and hung out and he ended up staying the night in my son's room. I ended up, for some reason, for the first time in my life, waited to do anything with a guy. It was kind of out of my character, to be honest with you.

We did kiss that night, but he ended up staying the night. He just, I wasn't gonna make him drink and drive cause we were drinking that night. How long was it? Until you, y'all, did you, did you feel like you fell in love with him when he fell in love with you? Maybe two months if that. It was pretty mutual.

Y'all both were really in love with each other. Yes, very much so. We didn't wanna be away from each other. We spent every day together. When did your first big fight occur? If you had one? We've never had one. There's not one moment that I could say that we fought. He wasn't a confrontational kind person.

We, and I know that sounds so odd, say, oh, don't we never fought. If we didn't like something or we didn't agree on something, it was always approachable with respect and just understanding. We were like the flower child couple. We never fought. Kind of perfect. Yeah. Y'all drink heavily together? Oh, every day.

Every day we drink. We partied hard every day that we were together. Would you describe both of you as being an alcoholic? Oh yes, definitely. Would you start drinking in the mornings? Yes, absolutely. And did you ever get mad at him while you were drunk? No. Yeah, not at all.

After the break, audio from the news report and Kathryn tells us what happened on that fateful day.

Friday afternoon in this Chesterfield Valley parking lot people in stores nearby say they saw a woman first, back over a man with this truck. Then pull forward and run over him again. I don't know why someone would do that. I still confuses me. The 40 year old man, she hit Matthew Baker. Did not survive.

Saturday, prosecutors charged the woman Kathryn Marsh with second degree murder. What she did was terrible. Police say the man and woman were in a relationship and worked together doing storm damage repair work. Most recently, they lived in the Villa Ridge area in Jefferson County. Why they were in this Chesterfield parking lot, they're not sure.

They say several witnesses saw what happened and came forward, but we didn't have any witnesses seeing what happened just prior. So we don't know. If there was a fight and he got out, we don't know. If he had no idea that she was backing into him, we we're. We're still trying to determine that. This audio from the news report on that day by local St Louis Station, KSDK News, again highlights the doubt behind this case. A lack of witnesses prior to the event made the circumstances even more cloudy. Luckily, I was able to get the word from the horse's mouth by asking Kathryn how these tragic events really played out. So what was the year that this accident happened?

That was in 2019. and y'all were in St Louis having lunch somewhere at a restaurant? That day, the night before we stayed in Arkansas. And we went to St Louis cause the company is based outta St charles area and he was out, this is on service. He was out with his business partner for the company. And I'm from St louis. So I had met up with a bunch of friends Thursday and started drinking at the bar and hanging out. And on that afternoon I said, Hey, I cannot drink and drive. I need you to pick me up cause I did not wanna drive. He picked me up that night and we went back. We stayed in a camper on a campsite, and we went back to the camper and started a little fire and hung out and just had our evening.

And then the next morning we woke up and he had a phone call from the University of Arkansas stating that they were going to hire his company to review their renovations that they have, which was a big, huge job and he was so excited that he broke out the fireball and we started taking shots of Fireball.

We both were drinking the night before, but the car that was left at the bar the previous night, he wanted to get it. It was a rental car and he wanted to pick it up that day and return it to the rental place cuz it was due that day and he wanted to leave and do that after we had already started off drinking.

I wasn't big on it, but I was okay with it. So we got in the truck and drove about an hour out, pick up the car, and the enterprise was literally three parking lots down from the bar that I was at. So it was right there and we went to the bar that the car was at and went in there and we started doing and celebratory shots with the people we know cause we're regulars there. So we sat there and had a few shots and had a few drinks and then we went and dropped the car off at Enterprise. And then we left Enterprise and went to the Moose Lodge, which were members at because we were doing a big fundraiser there. And I was gonna check out and see where things were going.

And at that point I think I've hit oblivion. I don't remember much after we got there. But everything from here on, it's been videotaped and recorded through video. After that, we were asked to go hotel room by the bartender. She had myself and my dog in her car. And then another guy had Matt and him, his name's Ricky and Matt's truck, and they were gonna drive the truck to the hotel and she was gonna bring the guy Ricky back.

Last minute Matt said that he could drive and we got in the truck and then approximately 25 minutes later, we were about 25 minutes out from our last place. We were in Chesterfield, Missouri, and we were, went to the restaurant there. I don't know why we were going to the restaurant. I do know that we tend to do some cocaine whenever we drink occasionally.

And usually the guy that we get our cocaine from is usually at the parking lot of Home Depot, which is the same parking lot as this restaurant was at. Mm-hmm. So I'm not sure if we were in that vicinity to pick up something. I also know that he had a job at Syberg's. I don't know if he was planning on going in there.

I am not aware. Cause again, at this point I'm at a blackout stage where I'm not aware of what was going on. But that was at like 2:30 in the afternoon. We drove in front of the restaurant. Matt was in the driver's seat in front of the restaurant at 2:45 PM I can only go by what. Solid information like videotapes, 911 phone calls, things like that.

I can only go by those things because I personally don't remember, or I have no recollection of what happened at all. But at 2:45 PM the video camera off the restaurant shows that Matt was in the car, in the truck driving and we drove past the front door, and then I'm assuming we went to the parking spot. And at 2:47 PM later with the first call stating that Matthew was and struck by the truck.

As Kathryn mentioned, her memory was affected by alcohol and a lot of what she recalls has been filled in by evidence given at her trial.

We have been able to obtain the 9 1 1 calls from that day to highlight the confusion and chaos of that moment. We have condensed and edited these recordings for the sake of our story. Fair warning, the following recordings may be difficult to listen to if you want to skip ahead to just after the 22 minute mark.

You can continue with our interview with Kathryn. What follows are the first 2 9 1 1 calls from the location.

9 1 1 Emergency St Louis County. What, what's going on there, ma'am? Um, the lady just ran over a guy in our parking lot twice. Okay. Stay on the line. Lemme get us on. Paramedics Fire and ambulance address outta the emergency. Um, we, there's a, a lady just ran over a guy twice in our parking lot. She ran over him twice?

Did she do? Yeah. I don't know. They just yelled at me. Tell they just, she ran. I don't, I don't really know. I'm inside and they're all outside. They just told me to call 911. Do you know if the vehicle's still there? I have no idea. Okay. So you don't know anything, you don't know anything about el? No, I, I don't.

They just, I'm in the 911 emergency St Louis 9 1 1. What's the address of your emergency? Um, I'm at SHA Sales and there's a woman that re Okay. We already have, Hey ma'am. We already have police and an ambulance on the way. Did she do this on purpose? Uh, I don't know. But it sounds like she's, she's, um, it sounds like alcohol.

Sounds like she smells like alcohol. What do we do for him? Um, it's a truck. What color? Um, it's a black, she's out. It's a brand turbo, diesel Cummins badge. That's fine. Black truck. That you think the driver's intoxicated? Uh, it's possible. She's all over the side county. What do we do? What's the female look like?

We know who she's, when we get, um, um, white male or white female. I'm sorry, dark hair. I think the man might be her, uh, boyfriend. I think it might be her boyfriend. With dark hair? Uh, yeah, she's over his body. Did she run him over on purpose, do you think? Uh, it's possible. The, the, the staff at our restaurant says that she did think that she did.

They're coming. Hey!

We need to stop pressing them. Hey ma'am. Stay on the line. I'm gonna connect you with the paramedics so you can give them more information, okay? Okay. Okay.

Fire and ambulance address of the emergency? I don't know what to do to try to hop. And should we give him CPR to eyes real? Okay. Is this, is this for the, the person struck? Yes. Yes. Okay. So should I, there's a lady over him. I think she might be his girlfriend, but I should I have her stop touching him? Okay. Here, let me ask you some questions, okay?

Okay. Okay. All right. Are you by him? Yeah. Yes. Okay. How old does he appear to be? Uh, I would say mid thirties, possibly early forties. Okay. Is he awake? No. No. His eyes are open. I, he, so he, he tried to administer cpr. He's, there's a little bit of air. Okay. Let's, I don't think, ma'am, slow down. Is he breathing? I don't think so.

I don't think he has a pulse. Okay. I need you to verify this information is gonna decide what we do next. I need you to check very carefully if he is breathing or not. You need to get away from him. I gotta check. He's breathing. Okay. I got you. Gotta get away from me. I don't think so. I don't think so. No.

No, he's not. All right. We've got. Like I said, we've got help on the way. All right. Okay. I I'm hear him coming. I'm gonna tell you what to do. Okay? Okay. Okay. All right. Is, is there a defibrillator available in the store? No, I don't. There's no defibrillator releasing our building there. Not, okay. Is he flat on his back?

Yes, but she keeps moving his head. I, I don't know how to get her away from him. Okay. What. I need him. We need him flat on his back.

I can't get her away from him. Okay. Ma'am, are the police there? Yes. Yes. They just got here. They just pulled up. Okay. I'm gonna go ahead and let you go, okay? Okay. Thank you bye.

So why did he get out and why did you get in the driver's seat? And that's something I wish I knew to this day. I have no idea I, what would he be doing outside of the truck? Do you know? He could have been outside of the truck to get out, go inside the bar. He could've gotten out and asked me to back up. I doubt that because I could see him backing that up himself.

Why do you remember everything else? But you can't remember this part right here. The only reason why I know that is because of video tapes. I don't remember that part. I had a seven day trial and that was presented at the trial, so I only know by the evidence. So the first time that you struck him, were you going forwards or backwards?

I don't know. I mean, like I said, I don't remember hitting him or doing anything like this at all. I have no recollection of how it happened. I know that one witness stated that I hit him forward. One witness stated that I backed him up. Were the wheels running over him or was he getting hit by the car getting dragged underneath?

Seeing that's the thing. There is no marking on his body from the autopsy that stated that he was ran over with tires or drug. The autopsy only shows that he was impacted in the chest, and they presume that it was from the hitch because the jacket that he was wearing was caught on the hitch and the only point of impact was just in the chest, and they believe that it was the hitch that struck him.

What I remember of the incident in the accident was after the fact, I remember somebody hitting my door. And saying that I had hit somebody. And at that moment, I don't know if it was just, I don't know what got me out my drunkenness, but when I opened up the door, I looked behind the truck and he was behind the truck lying there, and I ran to him and him in my arms while he died at my arms.

So he was behind the truck. Whenever you went to him, what, is he looking at you or was he not conscious? He was staring at me, I'm not sure. And he wasn't conscious. I don't, I it, it was scary. It was a scared look on his face and it stayed that look until he passed away. He looked very scared. Was he saying anything to you?

No, he couldn't talk. Uh, blood was coming outta his mouth. What were you telling him? Uh, how much I love him and to hang on. How'd that make you feel?

Uh,

Uh, like a whole part of me was, I don't know. It, it's a horrible feeling. Uh, I was scared. I was so scared that I was gonna lose him. How long did he stay alive? I don't think very long. Uh, when the police got there, they. Removed me off of them and when they handcuffed me and put me in the squad car they had before we drove off the parking lot, there was a white sheet over him.

More after the break.

Would you say you were pretty cooperative with authorities 100% cooperative with author, the authority from five minutes after the incident happened? Yes. Did they read you your rights and tell you that what you were getting charged with? Not until after about six hours of interrogation. They told me the whole time he was alive.

Why were they telling you that?

I dunno, some evil trick, I guess they were telling me that. They just wanted to know how he was struck and how he was hit and what happened, and I just kept telling them that he must jumped in front of the truck trying to stop me from leaving, or something and to find out he was never even hit from the front of the truck. And they just kept going on and saying that he was still alive and that he had nobody, and I'm begging him to take me to him, and I didn't even realize what was happening.

He died on the scene and they lied to me the whole time.

If one thing is clear from Kathryn's emotional response, it is that she is deeply affected by her own actions. It puts doubt over the claim that this was an intentional action on her part, and this was reflected in the resulting trial. Even though she faced second degree murder charges, Kathryn pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of manslaughter.

In a surprising move. She even asked the court for the maximum sentence. The court granted her request and a jury sentenced her to 10 years in the Missouri Department of Corrections. In Missouri, 10 years is the maximum sentence for manslaughter. I was curious if Kathryn felt this was fair, whether she knew what effects her actions had had on the people around her.

Kathryn spoke highly of her own family. But what about Matthew's family? I was curious if she had any contact with them too and what they might have felt about her sentencing. So what was it like being arrested for that? Obviously you, you never got bailed out, right? You just stayed there? Ever since I stayed, I've been there since March 29th, 2019?

Yes. And what sentence did you get? I got a 10 year involuntary manslaughter charge. How did you feel whenever they gave you the sentence that you got? Um, I was okay with it. I wasn't surprised and, you know, you kinda, the feeling I had was that I knew I kinda knew what I was getting before I went in there.

Actually, what I got charged with and the time that I got was the actual plea agreement I wanted to make while I was sitting in county. Because they were charging me with second degree murder, and I offered because the fact it wasn't accident. I asked them to take involuntary manslaughter and I told him I would take the Max because I felt like in a way I deserved it.

You know, I had a lot of guilt, you know, he wasn't here no more, and I don't think any amount of time was not gonna, I'm gonna live with it for the rest of my life. So whether it was 10 years, 20 years, However long it was. It unfortunately, I don't think any time's gonna be enough. It's not gonna bring him back.

Just humble that I can still go home, you know, and not spend the rest of my life in prison. But I would've been okay with anything that I got. Do you have any kids? I do. I have two. What are their ages? 23 and 20. Do you have a relationship with them while you're in prison? I do, they, uh, visit me quite often.

My oldest, he just finished the Navy after four years and then joined the Army and he's in Fort Benning, Georgia right now. But until he went into the army, they visit me here quite often. And then my youngest does as well. Does he have kids? He does. He has four children. What do they think about you? Now they think that I murdered their dad. Before they thought the world of me. Yeah. Have you ever gotten hate mail or anything like that from anybody? No. No. Absolutely not. Not at all. Were his kids and family and friends at the trial? No, they were not. Um, his family, his mother, father, and sister came to my sentencing.

But there was nobody at his trial. They watched you get sentenced? HIs parents and his sister. Yes. What was their reaction to that? It was just a sad day all around. I think they were relived that I got the max , I would think that's what they thought. They also know that they forgave me at the sentencing. They told me that they forgive me and they hope that I have God in my heart and, uh, you know, his father is a Baptist preacher, so that's really hard to, to read how they felt because that day was just a, it was a sad day to begin with.

It is clear that Kathryn is deeply remorseful for her actions. She shows empathy for her victim's family, and an understanding of their point of view. Crimes of passion are often driven by complicated emotions and factors such as jealousy, anger, and betrayal, but the overriding emotion from Kathryn's or remorse, guilt, and regret.

Despite this, she still has to face the consequences of her choices, while her regret and willingness to accept responsibility for her actions are commendable. It doesn't change the fact that she took someone's life. Having not seen the outside world since that fateful day, I was intrigued to explore what prison was like for her and how she coped with the guilt and trauma of the situation.

It's clear that Kathryn has a strong support network, but how does she navigate the harsh realities of life behind bars?

What's prison been like for you since, uh, has it been a big learning experience? Yeah, I think St Louis County was way worse than my prison experience. I spent 18 months in the hole on St Louis County, so that was pretty rough being in a black dominant community as a white female was rough and it really wasn't even the inmates as much as it was the officers more than anything, to be honest with you.

That was rough. Since you've been locked up, have you been in any fights? No. Not one. Not one. How do you avoid that? I don't, to be honest with you. I'm a person that likes to help people, so. Everybody sees it. Even if I make mistakes, my intentions are always good. The only thing that I have issues with with prison is trying to be a people pleaser to avoid issues.

And sometimes that kind of gets me caught up, but nobody wants to hit me or fist fight over it. A lot of things is, uh, maybe disagreements, you know, things like that, you know, but I, I do stand on my word and I speak up for myself, but. The prison here is not vicious like you would think it's either. So that has a lot to do with the dynamics of this place as well.

Do you, um, find yourself in relationships in there? Um, no. I mean, I've had one when I very first got to, I found one and she. I don't know if it was just I wanted a companion cause I was for two and a half years with nobody and I lost my best friend. I don't know why, but you know, it was a good, good couple of weeks, but not really at all.

Little flirting with girls and stuff is fun, but other than that, no, I'm pretty much of a loner when it comes to that. What's the worst thing you've seen since you've been in there? You have not really seen anything. Horribly bad. I mean, I've seen a couple of fights, but nothing detrimental to somebody's life.

It's actually been kinda an easy ride, to be honest with you. Kathryn's positive attitude and outlook on life despite her time in prison is apparent. The ability to see good and others can have its advantages in such a dark place, and she has been able to steer clear of any of the typical problems within prisons, however, Evidently the monotony of prison life has given her plenty of time to think, and despite this positivity, there are also some mixed emotions about losing her best friend Matthew.

I wondered how this would affect her when she gets out. On one hand, she would be excited to be getting out and starting a new chapter in her life. On the other hand, she will be anxious about what the future holds for her. Will she be able to find a job? Will people judge her for her past actions? And most importantly, How will she cope with the memory of Matthew?

If you could get out today, would it be the first thing you did Well, besides seeing my family, which obvi- the obvious one. Um, I would like to grab my kayak and my hammock and go down the river by myself for at least three days. That would be the first thing I would do. Yeah. Is that something you and Matthew ever did?

No, actually it was something that I've always done. Do you think about Matthew a lot? Every day. There's not a day that goes by that I don't think about him. It's hard not to. Yeah. Do you think you're gonna have a difficult time when you get out readjusting? No, I don't. I have a pretty good solid foundation waiting for me when I get out.

I'm pretty lucky to have the family that I have. What do you think you're gonna do for work when you get out? Actually, I became a dog trainer here in the Department of Corrections, and I'm certified through the state of Missouri, the Board of Labor as a dog trainer. And my niece, who is 28, she has a dog breeding company, out in the country.

And they, they're gonna set me up with a little place out there so I can do dog training for the people on their customers and clients. To set by their dogs. So that's what I'm going to start doing. Is it the Puppies for parole program you're in? Yes. Do you currently have a dog right now? No. Um, I'm actually out that program right this second.

Because you're in treatment? I'm in the treatment, yeah. Uh, but I did that program for almost two years. What do you think about prison, do you think it does what it's supposed to do or, or, you know, comparing yourself and others in there when, when you see how the things, and do you think it corrects people?

First, it's really hard to compare myself with others, because I try not to do the comparisons, but the people that I have been housed with

and with the P for P program and then Incentive Wing, I've actually been housed with, with a lot of lifers and a lot of old timers. And by being housed with them, their thinking process is a lot different than the ones that are only here for a year or a few months or 10 years, you know? So it's kinda hard.

I'm in this treatment program now, and the women here are short time. And the way that they act compared to the Lifers Act, it is a complete different dynamic. Huge. So big. So, yeah, I told them I see a lot of people returning.

Or a lot of people say that it's, they've been here 11 times or you know, they're long timers, but they're long timers in increments. You know, they do five years, they leave, they come back. What year are you estimated to be out? 2026. It's actually March 28th. 2026. So exactly three years. Yeah. That's pretty exciting.

Um, and so you've been in there for what, five years now? I've been down for four, four years. March 29th. Are you gonna be on parole, on paper for some time when you get out? I should only be on paper for about three years. I'll have three years left. Well, Kathryn, uh, I appreciate you, uh, letting me ask you some pretty serious questions and you being able to open up to us.

Hopefully you could benefit from that in some way. Sorry that it's, uh, happened to you. You know, it's a pretty unfortunate event. Everybody I talk to has, you know, something completely different and yours is definitely completely different. So I hope the rest of your time Yeah, well, you know, is easy. I do too.

I really do. But it's what I make of it. So, you know, just I'm staying positive, I'm being productive. I'm doing things. You know, there is a lot of good things here that is provided, but I do notice that a lot of girls don't take advantage of it. But you know, I'm trying to take advantage of everything I possibly can.

So for the first time in my life, I'm actually focusing on me when I usually focus on everybody else. So that's, you knows a blessing I guess, out of all of this. Yeah. Well, I can certainly appreciate the positive attitude. Um, it was good talking to you. Appreciate your time and best of luck to you. Okay, all.

Thank you. All right. Bye-Bye.

On the next episode of Voices of A Killer, how'd you kill him? Like I said, I did what I did. And God has forgiven me. I'm still doing time in prison. That's justice. Why do you strangle? Why that method? You know, I, I wouldn't even try to kill the man. I just wanna whoop his butt real bad. How many people, victims do you admit to killing? Two.

They're not trying to pin one more on you, there's like four or five more. I can't never get back a life no matter how bad I want to right now. I can't get back a life. I can't. If I r*** somebody, I can go back and say, I'm sorry if I Rob somebody, I can say I'm sorry, but I took somebody's life. Ain't nothing I can do to give that back.

Ray, do you feel like you're a bad person? I think I'm at wherever God want me to be.

That's a wrap on this episode of Voices of a Killer. I want to thank our guest, Kathryn, for sharing her story with us today. I know it couldn't have been easy for her to relive those painful memories, but her willingness to be open and honest is what makes this podcast so special. A big shout out to Sonic Futures who handle the production audio editing, music licensing, and promotion of this podcast.

If you want to hear more episodes like this one, make sure to visit our website at Voicesofakiller.com. There you can find previous episodes, transcripts, and additional information about the podcast. Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review. On Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast, your feedback helps us improve and reach new listeners.

Thank you for your support and we can't wait to share more stories with you in the future. Thank you for tuning in I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer.