Ep 79 | James Johnson Transcript

Before we begin this podcast, please be advised that the following episode contains language that some listeners may find offensive and inappropriate. The opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not reflect the views of the podcast producers. Listener discretion is advised. In this episode of Voices of a Killer, we dive into a harrowing story of revenge and violence.

On Christmas Eve of 2017, James Johnson brutally beat and killed his best friend Darren Kirk. Was this a case of protection, or was it something far more sinister? As we unravel this complex case, we'll explore the fragile line between self defense and cold blooded murder. How did a seemingly ordinary night turn into a horrific crime scene?

What drove James to such violent extremes? And where does the truth truly lie? Stay with us as we uncover the dark details behind the murder of Darren Kirk, the alleged threats that led to his death, and the aftermath that would change lives forever.

So James, how old are you? I'm 43. 43. And are you a native of Missouri? Yes. Where were you born at? Kansas City, Missouri. Truman Medical Center. Yeah. What was your family like growing up in Kansas City? We were poor. We just struggled a lot, trying to make it through it. Would your mom and dad do for work?

My stepdad was a construction worker. My mom was an independent worker. She worked at Circle K or whatever convenience store she could. Sure. Did you get along with your stepdad? Yes. What about your real dad? Where's he at? My real dad, he didn't come into the picture until I was 16. Do you think that's, do you think that might be his fault or something else?

I think it might be his fault. Did your mom ever talk bad about him? Yes, she did. You don't think she kept him away from you? I don't know. I don't know. That's usually the case. I'm not saying that's what it is, but A lot of times you don't realize this, but your dad probably does have a lot of feelings for you.

I may be wrong completely, but I think a lot of times dads get alienated, but in real life they think about you and they wish that they could be around you. Again, that may not be your case, but I think that does happen a lot. Do you think it had an effect on you knowing that you had a real biological dad out there that wasn't really contacting you much?

Not really because I had a really stable stepdad who was there for me through my time of need whenever I needed anything. Yeah. Did you have siblings? Yes, I did. They were taken by the state because I wouldn't quit smoking weed. Because you wouldn't quit smoking weed? Yeah. how much older are you when you're smoking weed?

I was smoking until I was 38. Oh, you started smoking weed at 38? No, I started smoking weed when I was 16. Okay, when did your siblings get taken away? My siblings got taken away before the case had happened. In what year did the case happen? 2017. So you're a grown man, I don't understand why. Were you living in the same house and they're like "hey, there's weed around the house, we're gonna take the kids from your parents"? My wife had a child endangerment charge on her and they would, every time she had a baby, they would take the baby straight from the hospital into DFS custody.

But that's your child, right? Yeah. Go ahead. She had a child prior to, before me. I tried to claim the child, but I wound up messing that all up. I messed it all up. But just to be on the same page, James, I was asking about your siblings growing up, and you said your siblings got taken by the state, your brothers and sisters.

Oh, my brother and sisters. Yes, siblings. The whole time growing up. Okay, so your siblings didn't get taken by the state, your own kids did. Yeah. Okay. So, we'll move on from siblings to your kids. Your kids got taken because y'all were using dr*gs around them? No, I wasn't using dr*gs around them. I never had a chance to actually raise them. They were taken by the time they were born. Wow. Was if like hard dr*gs in her system or something? Marijuana, that was it. It is bad to give an unborn child a substance, but it seems like... how long did they take him from you? Indefinitely? I don't know. I don't know. I'm going to try to find out when I get out. James's early life was a challenging mix of poverty and instability. Growing up in Kansas City, Missouri, he was raised by his mother and stepfather, a hard working construction worker who James credits as a stable figure during his formative years.

His biological father, however, remained absent until James was 16, a reunion that came too late to build a meaningful connection. James's struggles with substance abuse began early. He started smoking marijuana at 16 and continued the habit into adulthood. This dependency became a central issue in his life and would later complicate his efforts to maintain a family.

Due to his ongoing substance use, the state authorities intervened, taking his kids straight from the hospital, meaning James was never able to raise them himself. The trauma of losing his kids left James with a deep sense of loss and guilt. Despite his attempts to stay clean and rebuild, the damage was done.

These early struggles set the stage For a life marred by instability, addiction, and choices that would later lead to his demise. Today, James reflects on his past with a heavy sense of regret, recognizing how his addictions and decisions took everything from him long before the tragic events that put him behind bars.

We'll hear more about James's story after the break.

So tell me like whenever you grow up and you get outta your parents' house, what kind of a person are into dr*gs or good. I smoke m*th a lot. I grew to like it.

I just, I don't know, being in here locked up and being locked away, I grew against it. I don't want to do it no more. Do you do m*th in there? Never. Yeah. Did I do what? m*th In, in, in prison. Do you ever do that? No. No, I haven't. So whenever you were doing m*th for the first time and getting into it, what, or how old were you?

I was 17 when I first did m*th, and I was at a skating ring and one of my friends came and approached me with it. He said," I gotta wait for you to get high and you can get, and you can enjoy yourself." And I was like, "really? What do you got?" And he told me he had some m*th. So I was like, "okay, let's do it." So he put it in the bowl and we smoked it. And ever since then I liked it.

So your friend introduced it to you? Yeah. What point did you realize that it was a very strong substance and it was changing you for the worse? when I got locked up. For this crime? Yes. So that was like over a decade later then, right? Yes. So, that time from you starting, your friend giving you m*th, all the way to your crime that you're in prison for, did you do m*th that whole time?

Yes. Certainly, you got in trouble with the law somewhere between there, right? No, I was out of trouble all the time, I was, I never really got out that much. Okay. Did you ever hear voices that told you to go and act out on something? No, never. Most of the time it was just voices trying to scare you? Yeah.

What do you think causes that? I don't know. Believe it or not, I think it's honestly something that triggered me more than it triggered most other people. Did you ever have talks when this started happening as a kid. Did you ever approach your parents or teacher or anything? Nah, I never did. You kept it to yourself? I figured they'd think I was crazy. Sure. Well, I mean, it's a thing. You're not the only one that has that. I've heard lots of other people that, have that condition or whatever you want to call it.

did that, how'd you do in like high school? Did you struggle? Yes, I did. I was an LD student. I had a learning disability. I was really slow. I had to have one on one with the teacher. I graduated high school, though. Nice. They graduated me. So you had one-on-ones with the teacher and stuff. Did they give you medication?

as a kid? Yes. I was on the Dilantin and unintelligible for seizures. How do you feel about the dr*gs that you were on? I just figured it helped me, so I didn't complain about it. Were you, did you take those dr*gs from the doctor as well as doing the m*th? Yes. Yes, I did. Did the voice occurrences heighten whenever you did m*th or it's just the same or not at all?

It was just the same. Yeah. Did you do m*th alone or did you do it with friends? I did it with friends sometimes. I did it alone a lot. Yeah. So a little bit of both. Did your parents know you did it? My mom knew I did it, but my stepdad and my dad didn't know I did it. She didn't tell them? No. That's surprising.

Did she do it? No. Wonder why she wouldn't say anything. I never asked her. She, got separated from my dad when we were 16. Yeah. Or my stepdad. Did you, ever have any violence as a kid growing up or in your 20s and stuff? No. Never. Yeah. But your crime is actually beating somebody with a baseball bat? Yes. James's addiction to crystal m*th started at just 17, after a friend suggested he try it.

Naively curious, he went along, and from that moment, he was hooked. Over time, the dr*g took hold, pulling him away from his family, and making stability feel out of reach. In school, James struggled. He was slower than other students, and eventually placed in special classes due to a learning disability. But the challenges didn't end there.

He suffered from seizures and began hearing voices, a disturbing reality that remained constant, even as his dr*g use escalated. It's hard to know where his addiction ended and his mental struggles began, leaving a blurred line between hallucinations and m*th induced psychosis. His mother knew about his m*th habit but kept it hidden from his father and stepfather, a form of denial that left him isolated and his issues unaddressed.

Sadly, it's a common story of how neglect can feed the cycle of addiction. So take me back to the time, like the year this happened. The months leading up to this, you have a girlfriend, right? Yeah. And what is y'all's relationship? Is it pretty serious? You've been seeing her for years? New? We're married. Oh, married.

Okay. Did y'all have kids together, you said, and they got taken? Okay. Okay. I'm probably gonna have to call you back on my tablet because they're calling my week time. Alright. Alright, call me back and then we'll discuss a reschedule.

Next week on Voices of a Killer, we learn about the events that tipped James over the edge and into a blind rage. We talk about his relationship with the victim and how a dr*g fueled night has the potential to set emotions ablaze.

If you want to find out what happens next, right now, you can sign up at patreon.com/voicesofakiller. There you can find bonus content. Early access, ad free listening, and access to our chat community. So go to patreon.com/voicesofakiller to sign up now. Your support is what keeps us passionate about bringing these stories to you.

That's a wrap on this episode of Voices of a Killer. A big shout out to Sonic Futures who handled the production, audio editing, music licensing, and promotion of this podcast. If you want to hear more episodes like this one, make sure to visit our website at voicesofakiller.com. There you can find previous episodes, transcripts, and additional information about the podcast.

Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback helps us improve and reach new listeners. Thank you for your support and we can't wait to share more stories with you in the future. Thank you for tuning in.

I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer.

Ep 79 | James Johnson Part 2

What was your life like in 2017, leading up to the murder? it was kinda... I was so high. I can't, it's hard for me to remember that far back. But I was struggling. I was going through hard times. One thing,

one thing that was really hard for me was finding a job. Yeah. And I was. Were you single? I was looking around.

No, I was with my wife. And so in the, in one of these stories, it says your Johnson's ex wife called the police. Was that a different ex wife? No, that was the same wife. We're still married. Okay. I don't know why. I don't know why I said the ex wife. Yeah. Cause it's the news. Yeah. Have y'all ever been divorced?

No. Why do you think the news would say that? I don't know that, that he got one on me. Yeah. I was figured they would've picked up on it, but I guess they haven't. How was your relationship with your wife at that time of the murder? it was really shaking. We were struggling with the housing that we were in, so we was having difficulties

seeing eye to eye. So it was a big struggle. So is it true that she called the police on you? Yeah. So are you guilty of killing someone? Yeah. In the last episode, we heard about James's long history with marij**na and m*th. It affected his schooling, and then his family. His relationship with his wife was on rocky ground, and his hopes of becoming a father, crushed by the state.

The year leading up to the murder was no different. Increased dr*g use, poor living conditions, and financial hardships added to their issues. The ongoing stress made it nearly impossible for him and his wife to see eye to eye and the tension and instability set the stage for a breaking point that was rapidly approaching.

It was in this fragile environment that Darren Kirk found himself caught in the crossfire. As the stress and paranoia escalated, any perceived threat felt amplified, setting the stage for the explosive violence that was to come. This victim, Darren Kirk, how did you know him? He was my best friend. Your best friend.

Yes. Best friend? Yeah. He was like my best friend. I could talk to him about anything and everything and he would be there for me to, he'd be on my shoulder to cry on. Sure. This best friend, how long, since kids, since high school? Streets? Streets. Okay. Was your friendship developed around using dr*gs?

No. It was based off of the hospital. I was part of the Truman program. I was part of the Truman Program, which, required me to go to the hospital, take classes. Gotcha. Not to know exactly what happened, but what would make you kill your best friend? He said that he was going to dr*g and r*pe my wife. And I was so high.

Hold on a second. It's basically, it's a revenge killing, is that safe to say? Or a defense to your wife killing? Or do you think she was in intimate danger? A defense to my wife. What's that? A defense to my wife. Do you think that your best friend would have done that for sure, if you wouldn't have killed him?

I think he would have, if I didn't kick his ass. So this is your best friend, he's the person that you can talk to and things like that. You thought that he really would do that? He had been arrested on false pretences. And that was what he said that he was going to do in order for him to be able to get to my wife.

Why do you think he would say something like that? I don't know. I really don't know. So did you not think, "okay, this is somebody I've been known for a really long time, but he's saying something that's not, it's pretty scary. So just so I protect my wife as well and not go to prison, I'm gonna go ahead and call the police and let them handle it."

Why didn't you do that? That thought never crossed my mind. Did you have something personal against your friend where you wanted to, did you have something personal against him where you wanted to handle it yourself? Yeah, I did. What was that? He was trying to hook my wife up with his friend. Ah. Yeah, that hurts.

And now look where you're at though. Yeah, I know. And you got a dead best friend. How does it feel now? It sucks. It hurts really bad. I think about it every day. So let me ask... I wish I can go back and fix it. I bet you do. On Christmas Eve, 2017, Darren made a life altering threat. He threatened to dr*g and r*pe James's wife, and if stopped, he would get James arrested.

Up until this point, Darren was someone James had considered a best friend, someone he could turn to in a time of need. So how did they get to a point where one was dead and the other behind bars? According to the media, Darren was homeless at the time, staying with James and his wife temporarily. With an already strained marriage, were the threats on James wife truly the final straw?

In the interview, James mentions that Darren had attempted to set his wife up with another man. The details of this we can't confirm, but it brings up an alternative history that paints a different image of their relationship, certainly not an image of best friends. So this begs the question, was this truly a case of James defending his wife?

Or was the final threat of dr*gging her the lynchpin that made him snap? We'll find out more after the break.

Let me ask you this, James. Did you hear about all this kind of stuff days up to the murder and it had been eating at you for a long time? Or did you hear about it then and handled it then? I heard about it then and then I handled it then. So before that hearing about it, there was no other things that your best friend did that pissed you off that had to do with your wife?

Besides him trying to hook my wife up with his friend, no, there wasn't nothing. Well, that's something there. Him trying to hook your wife, your best friend, trying to hook your wife up with another dude is definitely a thing that happened in the past. So now this is second thing he's done basically? Yes.

And where were you when you got the news of this? I was at the house. I was in the house. Who told you? I got ahold of me and told me that. Who's she? Jayceen, my wife. Okay. So your wife told you? Yeah, she told me that because our relationship was so rocky, that she needed time away and that she needed time to figure out what she wanted to do.

Was she basically trying to tell, was she telling you in a roundabout way she wanted to go be with other guys? Yeah. How did you take to that? I didn't take it very well. I didn't take it very well at all. Did that really hype you up and made you feel a certain way? Yes, it did. Does that still haunt you now, that certain way?

Yes, it does. How many years later? Six years later. Is it painful? Every day. So, on top of your friend trying to get your wife with some other guy, your wife is also having a bumpy relationship where she wants to go and be with somebody else as well. Where's your friend at whenever you're getting to this moment of excitement of hearing this?

Where's he at? Is he right there listening to it? Yeah, he was right there listening to it. Did you basically turn to him and say, "what the F are you doing? Why are you trying to do this?" Or did you run after him? What was your next move? Just the next Yeah, that, that, was exactly what I said. I asked him, "what the hell are you f*cking doing?

This is f*cking bullshit." What was his reaction? He acted like he didn't know what to say or what to do. He kept saying he was going to make it better, he was going to change it, he was going to try to get my wife. So were you, let me ask you this, how tall are you? I'm about 5'9, 5'10. And how much'd you weigh then?

About, about 45. And your friend that you're arguing with, how tall is he? 6'2, 6'3. And how big is he? About 278 pounds, 280. So that's his, he's a big

I'm just guessing. So he's a big guy and in your mind you're so pissed you want to be able to do something to him. Did you feel like the only way you could do that was with a weapon?

Yeah, that's pretty much how I felt. How far was this weapon away from you? Huh? How far was the weapon away from you when you were arguing with him? It was within close, it was pretty close. Yeah, did you threaten him whenever you were yelling at him like "I'll kill you" and all this kind of stuff? No. At what point did it turn sour then?

I kept trying to, I kept trying to talk to him and tell him how wrong he'd done, how wrong he was and how bad he hurt me. And I guess I just, I beat him too many times. So what point did you grab the bat? I don't remember. You just saw red, didn't you? I, yeah. You went to, you went tunnel vision and killed the guy.

Yeah, Plus I was on m*th too. I was smoking m*th too, which doesn't help anything. Fueled with the idea of losing his own wife. James was in a state of panic. Could the thought of his best friend's betrayal and the loss of his wife culminate in the events of that night? And was James's state of mind at the time the reason for his downfall?

According to James, however, Darren's actions went beyond mere threats. He had tried to introduce his wife to other men. In a state of heightened emotions and clouded judgment, their long standing friendship crumbled in a single, violent night. The result? A best friend dead, a family destroyed, and James left to face the consequences of an act he wishes every day he could undo.

Who was at fault here? Was James's perception of the events heightened due to his state of mind, or did Darren's threats put a target on his back? On the next episode of Voices of a Killer, we find out the truth of what happened between James and Darren that fateful night.

If you want to find out what happens next, right now, you can sign up at patreon.com/voicesofakiller. There you can find bonus content, early access, ad free listening, and access to our chat community. So go to patreon.com/voicesofakiller to sign up now. Your support is what keeps us passionate about bringing these stories to you. That's a wrap on this episode of Voices of a Killer. A big shout out to Sonic Futures who handled the production, audio editing, music licensing, and promotion of this podcast. If you want to hear more episodes like this one, make sure to visit our website at VoicesOfAKiller.com. There you can find previous episodes, transcripts, and additional information about the podcast. Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback helps us improve and reach new listeners. Thank you for your support and we can't wait to share more stories with you in the future.

Thank you for tuning in. I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer.

Ep 79 | James Johnson Part 3

Welcome back to this episode on James Johnson and the tragic death of Darren Kirk. Today, we relive that night with James and discover the horrific details that led to Darren Kirk's death on this episode of Voices of a Killer. How many other people were around whenever you beat him with the bat? Just me, my wife, and him.

Whenever you struck him the first time, do you remember where you hit him? I hit him in the right arm, from the shoulder. So that's an indication that you really weren't quite going for a kill shot yet, but obviously that is a, I'm not saying it's the right thing to do to hit someone in the arm, but

you're not like coming down to the top of the head, you're not bat balls, or did you try to hit him in the head and you hit him in the arm? Let's ask that. No, I was trying to avoid hitting him in the head. Obviously that probably hurt, what was it, I'm sure that hurt him though, but what was his reaction?

Did he ask you to stop or are you toughing up or what? No, he was, he didn't try to run. He didn't try to get away. He didn't have no, he didn't say nothing. Did he put his hands up? Did he put his hands up to block his head? Yes. And did you swing again? Yes. What was the second hit? It was on the shoulder.

And the third? Oh, it was on the back. He turned around by that time? Yes. And now you're probably going overhanded? Yes. Where are you hitting him then? I'm hitting him in his back. He fall and in his chest he falls to the ground up, sitting up? He fell down and then he sat up and I hit him again. And by then he was talking about, Imma wind up killing him.

Imma wind up killing him. And he wanted to die anyway. He said, "you're gonna kill me"? Because

Yeah, what did he say, "I wanna die"? He said he wanted to die because he'd rather die than go to prison. Why would he go to prison? 'cause he, from what I'm, from what I'm understanding, he r*ped some chick earlier sometime that week and the chick was pressing charges against him and I don't know, I don't have very much information about what that, what happened and everything, but... did you ever strike him in the head?

No, I never struck him in the head. He stood up and his bones started popping and he fell forward and hit his head on the inside of my reclining chair. And that stopped it all? Yeah. Did you sit over him and you probably breathing hard and did you drop the bat or did you stare at him for a minute? Did you look at your wife?

Was she screaming? What's going on? No, she didn't say nothing. She just sat there and looked at me and she was like, because he moved backwards on his knees, like he was still alive. So, my first instinct was to call an ambulance. I told my wife to call an ambulance to come and get him because I figured he would still be alive.

And I felt for a heartbeat, which I felt a vague heartbeat. It was really low. So you actually went over there and checked his pulse? Yes. Did that get admitted into court? No. So now people know that there was probably a little bit softer side to this. Most people don't check the pulse of somebody they want dead.

On December 24th, 2017, James Johnson, his wife Jacene, and Darren Kirk were gathered at their residence in Kansas City, drinking. What started as a casual night quickly escalated when Darren made a comment about dr*gging and harming James's wife. Enraged, James grabbed a baseball bat and attacked Darren, repeatedly beating him as his wife listened from the next room.

Darren didn't fight back and remained compliant throughout the assault. According to James, his intentions were not murder. As the first strikes were to Darren's right arm, he claims he was angry, and he lashed out. After the beating, Darren sat slumped in the living room for almost two hours before becoming unresponsive.

Panicking, James and his wife carried him outside, placing his body at the base of the front steps. They then staged the scene, and James wife called 911, claiming to have found Darren's body when she returned home. His wife first told responders that she had no idea how Darren had died, saying she arrived home to see him sitting on the porch, thinking he had passed out.

She then later admitted to being home when the murder occurred, and that she assisted in moving his body. When authorities arrived, Darren was pronounced dead. The investigation revealed severe blunt force trauma, as the cause of death, confirming it as a homicide. Days later, during questioning, James admitted to the attack and was arrested.

He later pleaded guilty to second degree murder and received 18 years in prison, a sentence he accepted as fair for the crime he committed. We hear more about it after the break.

I really didn't want to kill him, man. It hurts me so bad. I'm sure that a lot of people don't understand The rage and the testosterone men have and then you mix substances with it and then strong emotions with love and friendship and broken hearts and bad timing and stress about life and just that's why life's tough.

People make wrong choices and do wrong shit all the time. We all have some of them worse than others, but I think that just by the way it sounds that you just raged out being high and did something you certainly didn't really want to do. When you checked his pulse, could you hear it or feel it? Yeah. Did you try to talk to him?

I did. I tried to see if he was alright. This call is from an correction facility and may be monitored and recorded. Would he say anything or mumble that? I tried to see if he was alright. He just said he was okay. He was fine and the longer he sat there, the longer it took for my wife to pick up the phone to call an ambulance.

I ran when she finally got a hold of the ambulance. I ran because I knew they were going to take him. Yeah, running makes it even worse for everybody too. So where'd you run to? I went over to my friend's house or to my other friend's house where I was getting my m*th from. How long did you hide out there?

Until the cops left. And then where'd you go? I went back to the house. How long did it take for them to arrest you? Took about a couple of weeks. You ran from them? No, I didn't run from them. They caught me in the house. Did your wife, your ex wife or wife, whatever, told the police what happened, right? Yes.

Whenever you got arrested, did you plead guilty or not guilty? I pleaded guilty. And what did they give you? 18 years. Do you think that's fair? For the crime that I did, I think it's fair. I think. Go ahead. I think that they gave me, they could have gave me 20 to life. That's what I think too. And I don't think that's, I'm not saying I think that's what you should have got, but here's what I'll tell you.

When I hear somebody say that there's a murder involved and they get 18 or 20 years, I think the judge saw something where you didn't think you were a mad person. Just bad timing and all that stuff, and all what we talked about earlier. 18 years is not that bad. You got to do what, 85 percent of that?

Yes, 85%. I got to do 15 and a half. Have you had any major violations? 7 years. No, no violations. Did James let his emotions get the better of him in his dr*gged up state? Or was this a cold and calculated move? We often hear about the regret prisoners feel after being incarcerated for a long time. In James's case, this is no different.

Despite the chaos of the events that unfolded that night, one fact rings true. James lost his best friend due to his actions. Now sober, James speaks of the regret and sorrow he feels every day. He felt his best friend's last heartbeat, and the guilt will sit with him for the rest of his life. During the interview, we also discovered that Darren was facing a possible charge that he knew was coming.

He decided not to fight back because to him death was better than prison. Having his life taken away by his best friend, though, is a heartbreaking way to go. Before we ended our call, I wanted to ask James about whether he thought about the victim's family and if he had a final message for his wife. Was the victim's family mad at you and went to court and everything?

I've never seen the victim's family. Yeah. But I'm pretty sure they're mad at me. I would love to be able to make peace with them. If they were listening, what would you say to them? I'd say I'm sorry for everything that I've done. That I wish I never did it. That I'm a lover. And I'd love to find some way to make amends for what I've done.

Do you still talk to your wife? No, I don't. What would you say to her? I would say, I can't believe that you put me through this. I wish that things would have been different and I wish I could change the past. Appreciate you talking with me, James. Hope everything works out for you. Okay, thank you. Yep, see you, bye.

On the next episode of Voices of a Killer: after you shot your boyfriend, what is the first thing you did? What did you do? Nobody's going to really believe when I say it, but I looked back because I didn't really understand what had just happened. There's panic, fear. They talk to you, you had a warrant, you're a person that they probably know is a dr*g addict, and now you got a guy that you shot and you have a story about how that happened.

Well, this story to them is so skewed in their eyes because it's coming out of the mouth of somebody that they work against 24/7. So it doesn't matter if you're telling the truth or you're telling some wild story. They just cannot believe it. So from there, they created their narrative because there's no f*cking way that you actually had to defend yourself.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I want to thank James for sharing his story with us today. His ability to be open and honest is what makes this podcast so special. That's a wrap on this episode of Voices of a Killer, a big shout out to Sonic Futures who handled the production audio editing, music licensing, and promotion of this podcast.

If you want to hear more episodes like this one, make sure to visit our website at VoicesOfAKiller.com. There you can find previous episodes, transcripts, and additional information about the podcast. Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Your feedback helps us improve and reach new listeners. Thank you for your support, and we can't wait to share more stories with you in the future. Thank you for tuning in. I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer.