Ep 65 | RAY JOHNSON Transcript

Ep 65 | Ray Johnson Part 1

Before we begin this podcast, please be advised that the following episode contains language that some listeners may find offensive and inappropriate. The opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not reflect the views of the podcast producers. Listener discretion is advised. On this week's episode of Voices of a Killer, we're talking to Ray Johnson, the man convicted of a 2016 murder outside a gritty Kansas City bar.

After he was seen fleeing the crime scene, Ray was held responsible for Derrick Wren's death. by a 12 man jury. However, from taking the stand to our interview today, Ray has avidly maintained his innocence and fought for his conviction to be overturned. Now we listen to Ray's side of the story, a narrative that's often gone unheard.

We dig into the notoriety of Bob's N Motion bar, interrogate the evidence that convicted Ray, And question whether the right man is paying for this crime. Did Ray Johnson kill a stranger in an open street in cold blood? Or is he a tragic victim of a broken criminal justice system? Stay tuned as we seek answers from the one man who can give them on this episode of Voices of a Killer.

So Ray, I actually have your appeal right in front of me and I'm reading a lot of stuff. I know you told me that you pled not guilty. In your appeal, there's quite a bit of stuff like witnesses, which is really difficult for a defendant when there's witnesses that basically say, "yeah, that's the guy."

There's nobody that said that on mine. Witnesses, there's one person that still said that. He never said I did anything. It's described someone while he was driving down the street. Now the witnesses that shoulda been called described someone else. They described the person who did the thing that I told my lawyer that she shoulda called that she didn't call.

That's what you're saying. So in the, yeah, in the case work, to me, the verbiage is saying that the victim is trying to point you out, or at least that's what they're trying to write. So, in other words, in court, did you have somebody take the stand and point you out? Nobody ever pointed me out. Nobody ever even picked me out.

The witness got on the stand. He didn't even say I did nothing. So that, then I'm going to probably back off a little bit on my assumption of the case. To me, and of course, you know, Ray, I'm not an attorney. Whenever I read it, I was like, wow, it looks like there's a witness that's basically pointing him out, but since you didn't have a witness at trial point you out of the stand, it's a little bit better than I thought, so what I want to do, Ray, is tell me, you're in prison right now for murder, and obviously you're claiming that you didn't do this, take me back to your younger days of, I want to try to figure out, connect the dots on why you wind up where you are now.

What was life like when you were younger? Well, when I was young, my mother, she kind of bounced around, so I would stay with my grandmother. My grandmother was a little sweetheart and she kept me most of my younger years until I was 15 and she passed away. I didn't have no problems in life. I wasn't, you know, no bad kid or nothing like that, actually.

I did everything. Yeah. How old are you now? 45. Wow. 45. I'm actually going to turn 45 here in a month or so. So we're very close in age. So you grew up and as a kid in the early nineties, did you see any kind of violence or did you have a father figure in your life or what? Yeah, well, actually my father, just got off the phone with my father was in my life. I made sure that I was cool, but then I did grow up in the inner city. So the inner city is keen to violence on a regular. So. Did you get into doing any kind of crimes and stuff as a adolescent? Actually, I did not. I went to school, I was a part of ROTC, I, like I said before, I was a, yeah, I went to school all my years.

Did you get to graduate from high school? Actually, I did not, though. I got to my 11th grade year, and I got kicked out of school for having a fight. Oh, you were so close. And then I went and got my, yeah, I went and got my GED after that. Okay. So you ended up finishing, but you got kicked out of 11th grade, so what kind of student were you?

Did you make good grades? Were you a decent student? So so. I'm not gonna say I was bad, I did enough to get by. Born and raised in a rough inner city neighborhood, Ray was surrounded by dr*gs and violence from an early age. In spite of this, he was a decent kid who kept his nose out of trouble. Perhaps that was largely thanks to his grandmother's influence. A kind lady, Ray's grandmother took on the mantle of Ray's primary caregiver and imbued his life with the stability he needed.

From what we can tell, a young Ray was a responsible student who never skipped school. enrolled in junior military training, and with some perseverance, returned to complete his high school diploma as an adult. For a large chunk of his life, Ray resisted the pressure to take part in the criminal activity he had been exposed to.

Only later on in life did Ray strike up a criminal record of his own. Whether out of financial desperation or a simple urge to fit in, Ray began selling dr*gs around his community. Effectively trading his clean cut image for a darker one. After the break, we hear more about Ray's struggle to stay on the straight and narrow.

So did you ever get into selling dr*gs or anything? Actually, as I got older, after my grandmother passed away, I kind of went down that route of selling dr*gs and I ended up in the federal penitentiary my first time ever being locked in a cell, but I was 33 years old. Up gonna the federal penitentiary.

You know, Ray, you kind of seem well spoken. I would suspect that somebody that. I know there's some groups in society that turn to selling dr*gs because it's a lot more difficult for them to kind of fit into places that, you know, are regular jobs and things like that because of whatever reason. But you don't seem to be that person.

Why would you turn to doing that? Well, it kind of was, I want to say core belief thing, just in my neighborhood, it's everybody around me that was just, that's what it was. And this was like second nature to me as I grew up, basically, I guess. Okay. So how much time did you do in feds? Oh, 64 months. Do you feel like that just made you to where you were more of a criminal when you got out and you kind of, that was your, a notch in your belt?

Actually, I was, when I got out of the federal penitentiary, I went and got my CDLs, I was applying for my LP, starting a corporation, I was getting my credit together, I was kind of doing what I was supposed to do to start a life as a grown man. How old were you when you got out of the feds? 37. So you were deciding then to kind of just straighten it out? Yeah. So the week or two before this crime happened, if I were to ask somebody, what's Ray like? What would they have said? Somebody that knows you. I'm an outgoing, fun spirited person. I like to be around people and bring people together. So you're 37, you get your CDL and you start doing the right thing. Are you doing any kind of stuff on the side, like selling dr*gs and stuff?

Nah, I was going to that bar. This case that I'm on now happened six months after I left the federal penitentiary. And I read about this bar, and it actually closed down, I think because there's too much heat going on there. What's the name of the bar again, in Kansas City? Bob's N Motion. Yeah. Kind of a strange name.

You said you're a regular there. Did you go there before the feds or just after the feds you became a regular? No, before the feds. Actually, the owners are my auntie's friends. So as a youngster, my auntie was bartending there and I used to go. They own two clubs so I kind of back and forth with both.

Troost Avenue is a long road with a checkered history that slices Kansas City in two. Historically used as a racial division line, Troost Avenue is still a symbol of social discord and segregation in the city today. It was also on this avenue that the notorious Bob's N Motion operated for 30 odd years.

Over the years, Bob's stirred up a reputation as a public menace. Nearby residents complained about the unruly crowds that frequented the bar, playing loud music, littering the streets, and breaking into fights at late hours of the night. Apart from these public disturbances, violence regularly broke out around the vicinity of Bob's, with 15 people shot or assaulted, and at least 2 killed since 2008.

As a result of public outcry, law enforcement faced mounting pressure to shut Bob's down. After years of temporary suspensions and community meetings, Bob's liquor license was finally revoked, and by 2023, Bob's bar was no more. One incident that tarnished Bob's reputation irreparably was the 2016 killing of 42 year old Derrick Wren.

Look up the court documents online, and you'll read a case summary that goes something like this: on April 23rd, Derrick Wren exited Bob's N Motion, followed closely by Ray Johnson and two of his friends. Outside, a fight ensued, after which Ray shot Derrick dead and fled. Laying out the facts like this might sound damning, but is there more to this story than meets the eye?

On the next episode of Voices of a Killer, Ray shares never heard before details that shake up this case.

If you want to find out what happens next, right now, you can sign up at patreon.com/voicesofakiller. There you can find bonus content, early access, ad free listening, and access to our chat community. So go to patreon.com/voicesofakiller to sign up now. is what keeps us passionate about bringing these stories to you.

That's a wrap on this episode of Voices of a Killer. A big shout out to Sonic Futures who handled the production, audio editing, music licensing, and promotion of this podcast. If you want to hear more episodes like this one, make sure to visit our website at voicesofakiller.com. There you can find previous episodes, transcripts, and additional information about the podcast.

Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your feeback helps us improve and reach new listeners. Thank you for your support and we can't wait to share more stories with you in the future. Thank you for tuning in. I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer.

Ep 65 | Ray Johnson Part 2

Welcome back to the next installment of Ray Johnson's story on Voices of a Killer. As we heard last time, Ray was convicted of a 2016 murder that he insists he did not commit, but what actually took place on that fateful night outside the controversial Bob's N Motion Bar, we'll find that out next on Voices of a Killer.

This KSHB News report you're about to hear was filmed just hours after the crime took place. Matt, it is still a very active scene here along Troost Avenue. Just along the other side of that yellow police tape is a bar and there are several other businesses too. It's in that area where police tell us the shooting took place just before eight o'clock today.

One man shot. He is now in critical condition, being treated at a hospital. But police still out here looking for any sort of information. They're speaking with witnesses. They are looking for evidence. They are just trying to get a better understanding of it. And we're going to talk about the details of this shooting and why it happened right now.

They do not have a suspect. They are looking for someone. They do tell us that it is a black male that was seen running from the scene of this crime. But that is the only description that they have to go off right now. As soon as we learn any more information, Matt, we will pass that along to you. When Derrick Wren was shot outside Bob's N Motion Bar in 2016, police sprung into action.

This was the latest shooting in a string of crimes that had plagued Troost Avenue and provoked public outrage for years. As tape was drawn around the scene where Derrick's dead body lay, law enforcement was determined to provide quick answers and reassure the public that things were under control.

Soon after, Ray Johnson was identified as the black man seen fleeing Bob's on the night of the crime and investigators honed in on him as their prime suspect using surveillance footage and eyewitness testimony. Prosecutors mounted a case against Ray footage from the bar, showed Ray motioning to his friends to follow Derrick when he left the bar.

Several witnesses also attested to seeing Ray and Derrick caught up in a physical altercation outside Bob's doors, and one witness from a passing vehicle testified that a man who matched Ray's physical description stood over the victim and shot him three or four times. When you put together the evidence like that, the case seemed cut and dry and Ray's guilt looked convincing.

However, since the day he was taken into questioning, Ray Johnson has adamantly denied shooting Derrick, maintaining his innocence. So what is the truth? Let's replay the events of that fateful evening from Ray Johnson's perspective. So, did you shoot that guy that night? No, Not even in self defense?

So let's go back to that night, Ray. You go, you're already at that bar before the victim? Yes. Okay. So you're there first. How long are you there for until he shows up, the victim? Maybe a couple hours, few hours. You have friends there with you? Not at first. When I got there, I was there by myself. First. And then people came up there afterwards.

This guy that got killed that night. Did you ever, did you know him from the neighborhood or anything? Nah, I don't even know a dude like that. Man, they been in the bar, I been in the bar, but we not friends, we never had no altercation, none of that. Yeah, so when he came in, how long did it take before there was friction?

We never had any, we never even had no words during that day. Oh, so nothing happened between y'all at all? No, actually his friend that was with him came up to me at the bar saying something to me, asking me for marij**na. And I told him I didn't have any. So does the prosecutor not try to claim that there's video of you and him having a physical altercation outside before he was gunned down?

But that's the altercation that happened outside afterwards. In the bar nothing happened, but you did have something happen on the outside? Yeah in the bar, the only thing that happened was his friend came and asked me for some w**d, and I don't even know these guys. Okay. So after he asked me for w**d, and then he went out the door, so then when I got up to go out the door, the prosecution was saying I looked mad going out the door after him.

But I don't even know any of them. And they said, the dude even said I don't know him. Did you kind of smart off to him and say, man, I don't even know you, why would I f*ck with you? Yeah, exactly. I looked at him and he told, and all of this is in black and white. Yeah. This is in the police report.

The other guy, he went down there and told the state that he was trying to buy w**d from the other dude. And seen me with a shirt on that said, basically, cookies on it. And he said, well, he wanted to buy w**d from me because I must have some, and that's how it all transpired, in the beginning. Yeah. From this point on, you're fixing to get into a situation on the outside and this guy winds up being dead. And let me tell ya, you're, there is a chance that you're not hte person who did this. Because the prosecutors just want somebody.

They want to make sure and put somebody away on a crime. But the fact that you're like, you know, there's only so many people there, and you actually do have some kind of altercation on the outside with them really makes it strong. So that's what I want to talk about. You finally make it to the outside.

You actually have a physical altercation with the victim? Yes. What would make this happen? I asked, I went outside, I asked him why does he have his people after me for w**d when he sells w**d? He said, "we wanted what you have." And I said, "I don't sell w**d." After he got the fidget in, his partner came close to me and swung on me.

They intentions was to rob me. That was what they probably what they was on. Okay. And the robbery turned sideways because the victim's car was parked around the corner with the key and the ignition. Two blocks away. And the prosecutor didn't want to say that, but it's in the paperwork. They didn't tell the jury that.

But I don't want to go into a long story, because I will. It's very passionate about me, because I'm sitting in prison, so I'm not going to do it. Okay. So whenever he swings at you, did all hell break loose, or you had some help, and it was everybody fighting everybody, or what? Nah, it was just me and the guy got to tussling and some cat call itself helping the situation from left field came and made it worse and now I'm sitting paying the price for it.

So whenever this fight basically finally simmered down, did you, what was your next move? You got up and completely left? Yeah, after the gusher, yeah, I left the scene. According to Ray, the night of Derrick's murder played out very differently from what's captured in his case report. Although he freely admits to getting into a physical altercation outside Bob's, Ray insists that he is not Derrick's killer.

Ray disputes the prosecutor's claims that he had a strong motive to kill Derrick, stating that he had no personal history with him. Rather, Ray tells me it was Derrick who instigated the trouble outside Bob's bar. The way Ray tells it, Derrick and his buddy jumped on Ray in what he suspects was an attempt to mug him and bolt.

At the first sight of a gun, Ray didn't want to get caught up in a situation that was rapidly escalating out of control. He took off on foot down Troost Avenue, where he was seen by an eyewitness. Ray's story leaves behind one glaring question. If Ray isn't the one who killed Derrick Wren outside Bob's, then who is?

We put that question to Ray after the break.

So here's the deal, you get in a fight with this guy, and you basically leave after that, right? After the fight you're gone, do you stick around at all? No, as soon as, like I said, as soon as, in the middle of the fight is when the melee happens, you know, and once that's triggered off, I got the f*ck away, I got the skills, I got away from that.

And here's the thing, and here's exactly where the prosecutors, even though they may not have that guy that points you out or anything else, the reason they want to put somebody away is because Now, moments after you fought these people, one of them gets shot and killed, and who would have done that just right there, right after that happened, you know what I mean?

Is there somebody else that you think would have done that? Well, I mean, you know, people all around that bar is in my neighborhood, so it could have been anyone of people that called themselves trying to help me out, but I mean, that's clearly what it was. Yeah. Yeah. And there was eyewitnesses that says, quote unquote, to the physical altercation, did people take the stand and talk about, they pointed you out as being in a physical altercation?

No one pointed me out. There's only one person that they put on the stand, and he said he was driving down the street going 35 miles an hour with his head and shoulders out the window looking back half a block away. And he's seen five minutes worth of stuff. That's the only witness, there are no bunch of witnesses, there's nobody else there.

Well that's, I think that's the one I was talking about when, at the beginning, there was a guy driving by, it's in one of the appeals. Did he actually point you out, though? He said, "hey, that's the guy"? Never pointed me out. Never even said Ray Johnson did anything. What was the purpose of him taking the stand?

Just to say that he did see somebody? But, I mean, obviously there's going to be somebody, but what's, he's not pointing you out on the stand? Yeah, that's what I didn't understand. And all of this is in black and white. Again, he was holding testimony, everything he said on the stand. They never even asked him was I the one.

You know what I mean? But Now, did they ever recover the murder weapon? Nope. No weapon. They don't have no weapon. They made three motives. They made up some motives that didn't even have no merit to it. They just threw a case together and since I didn't, I should have took the stand. Since I didn't take the stand and speak on my own behalf, they found me guilty of first degree murder.

Even, go ahead, I'll let you keep asking questions because I don't know if she's going to Yeah, no, so here's what I want to do ask you is also the guy that supposedly drove by also said that he saw you or someone standing over the person shooting that person finishing them off. Yeah, now tell me how could he see that, and he said he was going 35 miles an hour, and he said he didn't look out the window backwards from half a block away.

How could he see all of that? Sure, did he point you out in the courtroom that was you that stood over him and shot? I've never been pointed out. Nobody ever said Ray Johnson did anything. So Yeah, this really could be a situation where, you know, maybe this person was shot by somebody else but I think right now what the prosecutors are doing or the likelihood of that is very slim and you understand that if it isn't you, which obviously, that's what you're pleading, it shows that the probability is there, you know what I mean?

Yeah, there's two, the detectives have two witnesses that said they seen what transpired. They said they, one, both witnesses described the same thing, guy with dreads and a white t shirt and a dark skinned dude with a plaid shirt, standing next to the body as the gunshots went off. Two witnesses, two witnesses, it is.

And they both described the car driving away, and one of the witnesses videotaped the car, because she said, these are the people who was by the body. Not me. And they asked her, was I the one standing next to her? She said, "no." Ray gets riled up the more he talks about his case. He criticizes the shoddy case prosecutors put together, a conspiracy that he says was mounted against an innocent man.

There was no hard DNA evidence or gunshot residue linking Ray to this crime. Instead, the prosecution's case hinged on the testimony of one eyewitness. As written in the court documents, this witness was driving in the backseat of a car when he saw somebody shoot the victim. The physical description he gave of the shooter matched what Ray was wearing that night.

However, eyewitness testimony is more fallible than you might think. It's been shown that time distorts people's memories and the leading questions of a prosecutor might convince somebody that they saw something they didn't. Ray questions the credibility of the witness who wasn't even at the crime scene.

He doubts what they could have accurately seen from the back of a moving car a block away. It's also worth noting that, at the time local police were under considerable pressure to close this case, and show themselves as in control of the criminal activity around Bob's bar, could Ray, with his criminal record, have made a convenient scapegoat to take the fall for something he didn't do?

Next time on Voices of a Killer, and in the final part of this story, Ray relives his day in court.

If you want to find out what happens next, right now you can sign up at patreon.com/voicesofakiller. There You can find bonus content early access ad free listening and access to our chat community. So go to patreon.com/voicesofakiller to sign up now. Your support is essential is what keeps us passionate about bringing these stories to you.

Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever You get your podcasts, your feedback helps us improve and reach new listeners. Thank you for your support and we can't wait to share more stories with you in the future. Thank you for tuning in.

I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer.

Ep 65 | Ray Johnson Part 3

Welcome back to the final part of Ray Johnson's story on Voices of a Killer. When we last left off, Ray cast doubts over the prosecution's argument, questioning the credibility of an eyewitness report. We now return to the days after the crime, when investigators singled out Ray and public opinion turned against him, on this episode of Voices of a Killer.

Whenever you left there after fighting them, how long after that till you got arrested? I didn't pick me up from my job. A week later, they gave me a 24 hour investigation, and they let me go. That was like, May 1st or so. On that 24 hour hold, did they say that they had the video of you fighting? No, they didn't say none of that.

So they didn't have that yet and they still suspected you? They had a word of mouth thing. That's all they had was somebody saying, they actually was going off of one person. They said somebody told them one person was involved. And because my glasses was on the thing, they put me and him together. Yeah.

So, after that 24 hour hold, how long did it take before they came and got you? I guess it was maybe a month after that. My federal probation officer came and locked me up in the halfway house. And then they tried to vacate from there. So I didn't get locked up until June 2nd. Gotcha. So They didn't lock me up until June 2nd.

And it wasn't a state charge. The fed locked me up for elation. Federal violation for being at the bar around June 2nd. So they put me back in the feds. July 16th is when my face was on the news for this During the time that you're out after this incident, did you hear about this guy getting shot and you're like "wait a second, that's the same guy that I got in an altercation with"? Yes I heard the same night as everyone. So you knew "holy sh*t, the same guy that I just got in an altercation with is now dead down the street"? Yeah, I knew that had transpired. You know, everybody from the bar was calling me and everything. Wow. Did they suspect it was you? No. They know it's not me. Everybody, even the dude's family know that I'm not the person that pulled the trigger. So, you mentioned that the victim's family doesn't even believe it's you. Whenever you went to trial, was the victim's family there?

Yeah, just a couple of them, yeah. Wasn't all, it was two, like three people there. Did any of them, whenever you were found guilty and sentenced or whatever, did they read a victim's impact statement?. Yeah, the two sisters did. One sister, she got up, got up there and I understand her anguish. I understand that she was upset and stuff.

So she thought, she did think it was you? Yeah, from the evidence, she wished death on me and and all that. And then the other sister was like, "I don't think that it should be like that. I believe in God, but I'll go with my sister." The way the one sister's acting, I, I, I, I, I just don't, I don't know how to take it all. Like I said in the beginning. The person that died on this case, I They were trying to do harm to me, so at the same time, I understand, I told her in the courtroom, I told all of them after they talked, I said, "hey, I know it's hard losing someone, a loved one, but I'm still gonna prove my innocence when it's all said and done." So, Ray, is it possible, I mean, you did have several people that you were, you know, that were kind of in a threatening manner. You got in a fight with one, he's one of many in a group, is it possible that in self defense you're just like, man, I got to make sure I don't get hurt or killed. I got to fire some shots off. Is that possible that happened? Nope, never fired a shot. Okay, so what did you get sentenced to? I was sentenced to first degree murder, life without. So, okay, now life without means that you don't really have any chance of parole.

That means that there's really nothing for you to lose. Except a lot to gain by if you were guilty to go ahead and say, you know what? I just want to go ahead and admit to this and things like that. But you're basically saying that for sure that you are innocent and you're going to hold your innocence all the way to the very end.

All the way to the end. Cause if that was the case, I would have took a plea bargain in the beginning. If I felt like I was guilty and I know that I did it, I would have just took a plea bargain and said, so at least one day I know I could have got to see my kids. And you're pretty new into the prison.

Well, the, for this charge. You're new on this bit, which means that you and I know both know that you're going to be forced to take these classes where you're supposed to accept responsibility. How do you get through those classes when you're like, well, I can't accept responsibility because I'm innocent.

Well, I did that. I did one of them. It's called ICVC, I've done that. And this kind of situation, you know, it did transpire. And I'm just, I want to learn to feel the emotion of what transpired because, you know, my name is involved and I want, I don't want the people to have no reason to dislike me, but I know I can't really talk to no one and explain my story to them, because there's really no one knows what happened out there except outside the people that was out there.

We'd like to put our trust in the prison system to weed out criminals and deliver justice without error. Unfortunately, it's a money making apparatus riddled by prejudice, and sometimes that means innocent men get locked up for crimes they didn't do. For example, 70 year old Glenn Simmons made headlines in 2023 after being exonerated for a murder he didn't commit.

His 48 year wrongful conviction is the longest on record, and there are likely many more innocent people languishing in prison. Of course, it's entirely possible that Wray is real. really Derrick's killer. But it's also possible that Ray was just an unfortunate man in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Somebody prosecutors thought fit their profile of the would be killer. As I mentioned to Ray, now that all his appeals are exhausted and with a life sentence ahead, he has nothing left to lose. If he is the killer, he could confess and rid himself of the crushing guilt he must be under. But if Ray is innocent as he claims, his future remains bleak while the real killer Facing the long road ahead of him, Ray holds onto the hope that justice will eventually prevail. After the break, we hear Ray's final thoughts about his future. .

So, Ray, the sister sounds like she was very emotional and very upset with you. She went off on you, didn't she? Yeah, and I don't blame her because she's only going off what the prosecution told her. She don't know, I don't know her. I understand there's definitely some time, it's tougher for a defendant, so I get it, and that's one of the things I try to push.

Not saying that you're innocent, not saying you're guilty, but I do know that it's a lot harder for a defendant than it is for a prosecutor, I believe. So, what would you say to her now, it's been a while, but I guarantee you her wounds are just feeling the same as it did that day, but what would you say to her if she heard this?

I definitely would want my condolences to go out because I don't want, I don't want to... I haven't felt the pain of losing a brother like that, but at the same time, I know it's not a good feeling, and as far as with me, I definitely want to send my condolences out to her pain and sorrow, and I only wish the best from here on out for them.

So, Ray, if you're the person that's not killed this person, that means that there's another killer out there. Who is it? Well, on a question like that, I mean, we did say in the beginning of this conversation, where I come from, I mean, I don't know who done it. All I can say is I didn't pull no triggers, though.

Yeah. Do you think one of your buddies with you might've done it? Well, all I know is I didn't pull any triggers. You're set to die in prison. How do you resolve yourself? Well, I got a big support system. I got kids. I just had a grandkid. I mean, I just go from the Bible to the kids and that's, I mean, keep my head up and I just keep pushing to take it day by day.

I stay in the law library and try to figure my way out. How many more appeals you got? I'm on the last one that they offer. So, the habeas? Yeah, federal habeas. Which is probably the most difficult one. So, does that depress you knowing that you have a very slim shot? Nah, I don't do depression. I don't even do stress for real.

I believe that God got my back and I know that I'm innocent of what they got me here for. Just like I told the judge, I'm not here if I'm gonna get out of his way. So you're pretty sure that you'll get out? Yeah, yeah, 100 percent sure. What would happen if I called you 20 years from now and you're still in there? That don't mean I ain't getting out. That don't mean I ain't getting Well, I just may be that person that calls you 20 years from now if you're still in there.

Well, I hope you call me and I'm not in here, I hope you call me on my cellphone and tell me "hey, 20 years" Honestly, I hope I call and you're not in there too. I think that would be wonderful to have it to where somebody really does you know, have final justice to get, you know what I mean? Obviously, if you're the killer then you're where you belong, but I think you do have a somewhat of the case if there's no witness that actually got up there and pointed you out. Obviously, there's two sides to the story, Ray, and I'm only getting yours, but I got yours for a reason because yours is not heard as much as the other.

But I appreciate you letting me ask all these questions, Ray, and I hope the best for you, man. I sure appreciate you, too. Make sure you have a good evening. Alright, bye bye.

On the next episode of Voices of a Killer.

What a f*cking sh*tshow my life has been, and I am so sorry. We went out to Bonner Springs and it was, it was, "Hey, what the f*ck was that?" What do you mean? Well, first off, we didn't even know about the gun. Oh, so y'all were like, to the person that shot, like "where the hell that come from?" Yeah. And "I thought you, I thought you knew where we were going.

Who was this naked man that I just fought?" A naked man come out of his bedroom and attacked you. Yeah. You probably sh*t your pants, didn't you? Well, and then every day for the next 10 years.

I want to thank Ray for sharing his story with us today. His ability to be open and honest is what makes this podcast so special. That's a wrap on this episode of Voices of a Killer. A big shout out to Sonic Futures who handled the production, audio editing, music licensing, and promotion of this podcast.

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Your feedback helps us improve and reach new listeners. Thank you for your support, and we can't wait to share more stories with you in the future. Thank you for tuning in. I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer.