Ep 68 | Heather Watson Part 1

Before we begin this podcast, please be advised that the following episode contains language that some listeners may find offensive and inappropriate. The opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not reflect the views of the podcast producers. Listener discretion is advised. This week on Voices of a Killer, we investigate the case of convicted killer Heather Watson.

In April of 2021, when Bollinger County Police responded to a 911 call about a drowned body, they immediately suspected foul play. Signs of a struggle and facial bruising indicated that the 32 year old victim, Joshua Taylor, had met a violent end. Fast forward three days, and it emerged that Heather Watson and her boyfriend had ruthlessly tortured, then killed the man after strapping him to their living room chair.

Today, Heather joins us to talk about the part she played in this senseless crime. Although openly admitting to her actions that night, Heather insists that she was an unwitting participant in the murder, coerced by a hot-tempered partner and acting while afraid for her life. We'll unpack the fraught inner workings of the Proffer household, which subjected Heather and Joshua to unrelenting abuse.

We'll also explore the impact of the crime on Heather's young son, Derek, who was tragically drawn into the events of one haunting night. Join us as we relive the unnerving murder of Joshua Taylor and its lasting aftermath on this episode of Voices of a Killer.

So your case really wasn't that long ago. So it's probably still fresh in your mind. Yeah. Are you guilty or not guilty? Not guilty. Not guilty. What did you plead? Well, I pleaded guilty because, you know, I did get in a fight with the victim and I felt like they had me and I had no other choice. What did they have on you?

Well, in my interview, I lied and told them I did it and my lawyer said that since I confessed, she couldn't really help me out. So have you ever read any of the news articles on it? Someone said they see me on the news when I was in jail for a week and then I wasn't on there anymore. but you haven't seen anything?

So, the news articles makes it sound like it's pretty violent. Do you find it to be violent? Yeah, it was violent. Did you do any of the hitting or beating? We got into a fight before my ex did the rest and, you know, it wasn't as bad as they said it was. So what we call, how old are you right now? 33. 33. So, still young, got a lot going on.

What would cause a girl at your age to be in a situation like that? Where did you grow up in Missouri? Yeah, I was born in Lexington and grew up around Odessa and then I moved down to Papago. What kind of life did you have as a child? violence, my mom and dad did dr*gs and I've seen my dad beat her numerous times and we had to leave the house and she'd always go, you know, from the police department.

So it was pretty rough growing up? Yeah. Did you start taking part in violence as you got older? No, I wasn't really a fighter until someone like put their hands on me and I felt like I had no other choice. Like in school, I didn't really get into a lot of fights. What about the dr*gs? Did you pick up on that habit?

When I was 16, I got kicked out of the house. Because my mom and dad wanted me to be their dr*g mule. So I had no other choice. So I just moved out. And I stayed with my sister for a little bit, but whenever her husband would come home off the boat, she would pretty much tell me to get out of the house.

She wanted time with him. I got that, but I didn't want to go back. So you said used as a dr*g mule. What did you do? Well, they have people come by and pick up stuff and I just take the cash. Yeah. Did you finish high school? No, I dropped out at 17. Yeah, did you get your GED inside prison? No, I'm still waiting to go to classes.

This is going to be a while before I go. So, what was your sentence? Original 25 years, but I got fines credited from county, and then I got 85%, and then now I'm eligible for parole at 18 years. So 18 years, roughly, you'll do in prison. What does that feel like? It really sucks that I'm not around my kids.

How many kids do you have? I have two boys. Did you, obviously you had those kids whenever this murder took place. Why weren't you with them being a mother? We were in the same house when it happened. Oh, the kids were there? Yeah, he made my oldest participate. You say he, I'm assuming you're co-defendant.

Who's your co-defendant? What's his name? Yeah. Joshua Proffer. And Joshua Proffer, who's, who is that to you? Is that your boyfriend? Not anymore. But it was then? Yeah. How did y'all meet? Well, I was working at a nursing home. I got friends with the sisters and she introduced us at a birthday party. And then I had a bad night where I was thinking to commit suicide and he was telling me that I need to quit doing that and I can come live up with him if I keep quiet out in the country.

So he kind of came to you at a vulnerable point? Yeah. And when was this? What year roughly? 2008. So y'all met around 2008. How was y'all's relationship? Was it good? Was it rocky? Well in the beginning it was perfect. We were seeing each other and then I became pregnant with our oldest and so we started putting our heads together and he got a good job and he was doing his part, I was doing my part.

And then after my second was born, things just got really weird and rough, he became more violent. Did you feel like he was a violent person? He was very violent. How? What kind of violence? Against you or the kids? Well, his sister told me that he has an anger problem and then his ex wife told me to watch out.

From the start of my conversation with Heather, the figure of Joshua Proffer looms large. Joshua came into Heather's life At a particularly vulnerable point, life had been unkind to Heather, her childhood marred by neglectful parents and a dr*g-ridden home. And though she left to forge her own life, Heather consistently battled dark thoughts that brought her to the brink of suicide.

At one particularly low point, Heather struck up a romance with Joshua Proffer. A savior-like figure, Joshua offered Heather a clean break by inviting her to move out with him to the country. Heather leapt at the chance to escape her old life. and in those happy early days, she found solace and security in her new relationship.

With a son on the way and a steady new job in Joshua's hands, the future of the couple looked bright. By the time their second son, Caleb, was born, however, a darker side to Joshua had emerged. Back when the couple had first met, Heather had been warned by those close to Joshua that her new boyfriend had a bad temper.

Although she dismissed these thoughts, now like a light switch Joshua had begun exhibiting concerning and violent behavior. From the way she speaks, heather comes across as a meek individual and it's easy to picture Joshua a controlling man with known anger issues taking out his pent up rage on a defenseless partner. 

Fueled by alcohol, joshua became verbally and physically abusive to the point that Heather feared for her family's safety. The National Domestic Violence Hotline estimates that one in four American women will end up in an abusive, intimate partnership. Now Heather, trapped in a volatile and dangerous relationship, became one of those statistics.

So your crime happened in 2021, which is really not that long ago. What was the relationship for you and Joshua towards the victim? Well, that was his stepbrother and he moved up with us. We helped him out. Well, I really helped him out more. I took him to doctor's appointments and stuff. So he was a stepbrother that needed help staying with you guys?

Yeah. Both of them's first name is Joshua, right? Yeah. Yeah. And what was the relationship between all three of y'all together? Is there any kind of issues that were arising? Was he hitting on you? What was going on? Well, in the beginning he said he looked at me like a sister and he thinks we could help him.

But whenever we was all together, he'd be different. I was more like an enemy. But whenever they were drinking, I was the bad guy. And the, step brother was doing that to you? Yeah, but he only did it because Josh was doing it. Yeah. Yeah. He was scared of him so he thinks that if he didn't participate in bullying on me then he would have got his *ss beat.

So your boyfriend Joshua was basically bullying you and he was following along? Yeah. How did Joshua see his stepbrother? Did they have a really close knit relationship or was it kind of rocky or what? Well it depends on the day. Like if Joshua had a bad day he'd take it out on us. But their relationship was all right.

They worked together and did they have a problem with who was the alpha? I kind of got that vibe a couple of times. Whenever they'd be drinking, one would try to out rule the other one. And then, Joshua was taken out on him for trying to be a man, I guess. Besides the day of the murder, had you ever seen them getting a really serious physical altercation?

Yeah, he, whenever he got drunk, he'd either beat me or beat him. Would, the victim fight back? No. So, obviously they had a rocky relationship and just kind of dysfunctional, I guess, more or less. Did y'all do dr*gs together? No. Did any of y'all do dr*gs? Well, I smoked w**d I mainly did it for my anxiety and stomach problem.

So they didn't have any kind of m*th problem or anything? Well. Big Josh, that's Big Josh and then Little Josh, that's what they went by. Which one's Big Josh? Big Josh is the one that, it was my ex. Okay. So, which one had the m*th problem? I don't know what kind of dr*g it was. All I know is I seen like a light bulb.

Oh, smoking out of a light bulb? Yeah. Probably m*th. Joshua Taylor, better known as Little Josh was Big Josh's step brother, and joined the Proffers at a tipping point in the household. Now, Heather skirts around the issue, but fails to state outright an important piece of information. Little Josh had a mental disability that impaired his cognitive skills.

Drawing from comments available on online forums after Josh's untimely death a picture of a gentle, big hearted young man emerges. Although his disability could leave him confused or submissive, from what we can tell, Little Josh was a caring, sweet individual who loved spending time outdoors. The exact details are unclear, but at some point, Heather and Big Josh took Little Josh under their care in their Bollinger County Road home.

Every day, Big Josh brought his step brother to work, while Heather occupied a caretaker role for Little Josh. Possibly, Little Josh had nowhere else to go or possibly he hoped his stepbrother's home would be a safe place for him to live a productive and happy life in Big Josh's lead in spite of his disability.

However, the house governed by Big Josh's rage, was anything but safe. Like Heather, Little Josh became an outlet for his brother's violent temper during his blackout spells of drinking. And as Big Josh's m*th use escalated, so did his uncontainable and erratic rages, with Little Josh increasingly bearing the brunt of his brother's abuse.

There's only so much somebody can take before they reach their breaking point. Did Little Josh finally have enough of his brother's abuse? We'll find that out after the break.

What would cause, you know, this guy to be tied up and tortured? He was tied up, wasn't he? M hm. So take me back to that day. Was there something that he did to kind of set this off? Well, it was just normal day until they got home and then I just got this weird vibe like something's happening. What was happening?

Like whenever they got back from work early and none of them were really talking. It was like distant. So they had an argument earlier or something. Yeah, they probably did. That's usual. It happens. Like, little Josh would forget something at the job site and Big Josh would get upset about it. Yeah. How long did that tension last where they weren't saying anything or did you figure it out real quick?

I figured it out. It's usually the same thing. Little Josh forgets something or doing something at the job site. I have no control over it so I usually don't get involved. Did it blow up to where they were yelling at each other? Big Josh was raising his voice. Nobody else was. So it sounded like Big Josh was the big alpha and maybe Little Josh answered to that a lot.

And did he ever finally step on it, step, put his foot down and be like, no more? He has a couple of times, but it didn't really go well. Well, what about this round? Did he try to put his foot down on this one and say, you know, I'm not going to take it anymore? No, because there are two different things that I guess ticked big Josh off, like Little Josh would say, "Oh, I wish that I had your life.

I wish I had her. I want kids." And I guess Big Josh took it like, "oh, he's trying to take my life away," or what, I don't know. Did he have these discussions with you, like, "he says this, and I don't like that," and? Like, Little Josh told me before, whenever he was drunk, "hey I dream about you," and I'm like, "okay." So I was first off, he's drunk.

Okay, so that's what I was trying to lead up to earlier. Was there anything going on? Y'all didn't ever do anything together? No, no, and every time Big Josh would get drunk, he always assumed that we had something going on because I'm the one that takes him to his doctor's appointment, so I gave him his meds. Yeah, so you were kind of, kind of doing the, what a wife would do for their spouse, and kind of to little Josh, and I guess Big Josh didn't like that and plus the mixture of alcohol, everything kind of came out, I guess. Yeah. How often did that happen where he would b*tch about the two of you? Every time he drank, which was pretty much every weekend. So whenever they got home from work, what time of day was it? Was it the end of the day?

It was around 2:30. They had to come home early because the Orkin man was coming that day. And whenever, they got home and the tension was going and Big Josh was yelling, what happened? They had a little argument and I was just continuing doing laundry and then they was just drinking and hanging out.

And then whenever the Orkin man got there, Little Josh was told to go outside to finish stacking boards. And then by that time Big Josh was already drinking. Did you say the Orkin man liked to come spray for bugs? Yeah, we had bed bugs. So, y'all are getting that done. He tells little Josh to go outside. It sounds like he kind of answers the call to big Josh.

Like he's always, you know, more than just a older stepbrother. He's kind of like pretty demanding. Yeah, he is. Little Josh didn't like that, did he? Like you can tell he didn't like it, but he didn't really do anything stand up for himself. Well, sure, he's living in that house. So it's kind of got him over a barrel a little bit.

Kind of got him to where he's, you know, it's kind of an advantage point when you have something like that. But So, he goes outside and this, the guy comes to spray for bugs. What happens after that? Well, they're sitting there talking for a while. I had to go to the dollar store to get stuff for supper, so me and the kids left, and then when we came back, the Orkin man was still there, little Josh was still stacking, but by the time I got inside, they was both in there, talking, and that's whenever A little Josh was talking about I want your life and stuff like that.

He told, little Josh told your, big Josh he's going to kill him? No. Little Josh was talking about Oh, wants your life. Okay. You're, okay. Well, I got that part. So he's still there talking about that, that day? Yeah. Wow. So he's really carried on about wanting his life. Well, he wasn't, like, he wasn't completely disabled, he was smarter than what people put on.

Well, I understand that, but, I mean, you said he mentioned that in the past, and now he's doing it again this day, so, which is the day he gets killed, which is kind of strange, I'd like to hear what happens, but, what do you say whenever he's like, I wish I had your life, which means you?

Like, I really don't get offended by it, because if I get offended by it or show any emotion towards it, then Josh would get p*ssed and usually I get hit. Did you? It's like sport because it's happened multiple times. So did Big Josh end up blowing up on him about talking about that? Yeah, he did. And the kids were in their room while that was happening.

I was still trying to cook supper and then I asked them to both quit because I was getting sick and tired of hearing the b*tching. Was he getting physical with him? No, he was just verbally talking to him on the couch. What was little Josh doing whenever he was b*tching him out? He was just sitting on the couch.

How long did that last? Was he just like berating him for a long time? Usually whenever we get in arguments or something happens, it lasts like maybe three to four hours. It sounds like as soon as that alcohol hits, it's kind of like clockwork, isn't it? He starts getting riled up about stuff.

Yeah. Over the weeks that little Josh stayed with the proffers, the brothers' relationship deteriorated. As the younger, more submissive brother, Little Josh was an easy target for his brother's violent bouts of rage. Any small mistake Little Josh made became an excuse for Big Josh to berate his little brother.

To make matters worse, Little Josh developed feelings for Heather, which Big Josh took as an insult and threat. Big Josh would bully Little Josh mercilessly. Lashing out to reassert his authority over his younger brother, who received the abuse passively. Often, these volatile fights were exacerbated by Big Josh's consumption of alcohol, which seemed to awaken a particularly cruel side of him.

The day of the crime began in a familiar pattern. Given the long building tension brewing between the brothers, Heather wasn't surprised to find that, when Big and Little Josh returned home early from work, something was immediately off between them. As usual, after drinking, Big Josh got riled up and Little Josh did little to fight back as his brother hurled verbal abuse at him.

Nothing in this concerned Heather. Big Josh's alcohol fueled rants were a daily occurrence, so she hoped to wait things out until Big Josh's rage dissipated. Unfortunately for Little Josh, Big Josh had no intention of backing down. On this particular evening, in fact, things were about to get more serious than ever before.

On the next episode Voices of a Killer. We hear the harrowing details of the ordeal that little Josh was forced to endure.

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That's a wrap on this episode of Voices of a Killer. A big shout out to Sonic Futures who handled the production, audio editing, music licensing, and promotion of this podcast. If you want to hear more episodes like this one, make sure to visit our website at voicesofakiller.com. There you can find previous episodes, transcripts, and additional information about the podcast.

Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, your feedback helps us improve and reach new listeners. Thank you for your support and we can't wait to share more stories with you in the future. Thank you for tuning in.

I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer. 

Ep 68 | Heather Watson Part 2

Before we begin this podcast, please be advised that the following episode contains language that some listeners may find offensive and inappropriate. The opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not reflect the views of the podcast producers. Listener discretion is advised.

Welcome back to the second installment of Heather Watson's story. Last time, Big Josh unleashed a violent rage on his vulnerable disabled brother, Joshua Taylor, better known as Little Josh. Now we hear how Big Josh's bullying reached new heights, leading to a nightmarish and tragic end for Little Josh

on this episode of Voices of a Killer.

So what, did it finally break? I mean, what's going on with you? How's your feelings about it? Is it still neutral? Because obviously you got involved at some point. Is it neutral at this point? I was just trying to get them to quit arguing. Yeah. What would they say whenever you got them to try to quit? They kept arguing about, "oh, well, you think you're a better man than me?"

Saying some off the wall crap. And then where did it go? What was the next step? Well, somehow it got turned on me. That was the problem. Both of them? No, just big Josh. "Why didn't you say this? Why didn't you do this?" Oh. You're just list. And stuff like that. I just ignore it while I'm trying to cook and it got annoying so I went outside for a little bit and all the laundry gets thrown out the house.

Oh, so he's really going off. Yeah, it happened mainly every weekend, something. And it always ended with me and the kid leaving, but it didn't happen this night. So he's throwing all the stuff out of the house. Are you just yelling at him or are you just, letting it all happen? I'm just letting it all happen.

What's little Josh doing whenever big Josh is throwing a tantrum? He was sitting on the couch. He's just, okay. What progresses after that? Well, I walked in on a conversation of the kids, and little Josh started saying like some nasty stuff about the kids, and then that's whenever I stepped in. Like, you can say all you want about me, I really don't care, I can take it, but, you know, leave the kids out of it.

And he kept arguing with me, and then. Where's big Josh whenever he's talking about the kids like this? He was sitting on the couch. He let him talk about the kids, his kids? Yeah, he let little Josh talk to me like a dog, and yelling at me when I'm trying to stick up for the kids. Big Joshy was sitting there, looking at me like I'm supposed to do something.

And then Lil Josh got in my face and pushed me, so I pushed him back. And then, Caleb came up in the kitchen. And during that little altercation that we had, Caleb got pushed to the side. Like he got pushed. Your kid? Yeah. That set you off? Yeah. What'd you do whenever he set you off,

he push Lil Caleb? Oh, we got into it. He swung on me first and then not gonna get hit. So, me and him got into it and then after a while Less one on the floor Big josh stood up and said, "Hey, that's enough." So we quit. Little Jaso sits on the couch and then it all went haywire from there. Heather recalls how she got caught up in the crossfire of a fiery argument between the two stepbrothers.

Up till now, the dispute had been self-contained, but now Heather was reluctantly roped into a fight that didn't involve her and was spiraling out of control. In past incidents, heather explains, little Josh liked to participate in his brother's mistreatment in her, possibly in his desperate attempt to appease his big brother.

That night too, Little Josh directed his aggression towards her, and in the process, he hurt her son, Caleb. Though much of what happened next is a blur, Heather can trace everything back to this, the moment when things truly went quote unquote, "haywire." Enraged, she wrestled little Josh to the ground while Big Josh sat by and watched.

Violence was commonplace in the proffer household, but this incident upped the ante of big Josh's tirade, spelling disaster for his little brother. So I feel like you, you're a little bit apprehensive about telling the details, aren't you? What do you wanna know? Well, I mean, so y'all got into it and then it went haywire.

So what would cause? 'Cause, right now Big Joshua is just letting you guys have it out, which is kind of strange. But he's letting his wife and his stepbrother have it out fight and he says, "okay, that's enough." And right there you say, okay, and then that's when things went haywire. Did you go and get a weapon and try to attack him?

No. Okay. Then where was the switch at? What happened to where it went haywire? Like after that all happened, I went back, got the kids in their room, and then Big Josh was talking to little Josh on the couch. And what's the, is little Josh still, "screw this b*tch, I'll, you know, blah, blah, blah." Is it all calmed down or is he trying to, what's the atmosphere like?

Are y'all still yelling while you're putting them to bed? No. So go ahead, you're putting the kids to bed and then what happened? I hear him out there arguing, Little Josh is getting on to him pretty hard, he's calling him names, telling him he's gonna do stuff to him. He told him to go get a battery so he can sit in a chair and then I guess shock him.

Shock him? Yeah. So he made Little Josh go get his own torture weapon? Okay, so is this something y'all did just for fun? No. Y'all never done it before? No, it's never went to that extreme. Usually you just beef on us and then we either wait till he passes out or we leave and wait till he passes out or Is Big Josh a pretty imposing fella or is he just imposing over you and Little Josh?

Violent towards everybody. Yeah, so he has little Josh actually go get something to ta, like tase him and kind of mess with him. Did Little Josh think that this was fun or he was like, "oh man, I gotta go do this," or was it like a game at first or what? Oh, he just went outside and got a battery and came back inside with it and just held it and stood there.

I'm like, okay, so what's going on here? Okay, so big. What happened? The battery wasn't charged up, so that's whenever he had him sit in the chair and then had Derek hold the rag while he poured water down his throat. Who's Derek? That's our oldest son. So you had, how old is the oldest son? He's 14 now, but he was 11 at the time.

So you had an 11 year old participate in that? That's crazy. I don't think you probably thought he was going to die though, I'm assuming. So, who's holding him down while they're putting the rag over his face and pouring water? So, he was tied to the chair. Whenever he was tying him to the chair, was little Joshua, what was he saying whenever he was tying him, like, "oh, come on, man, let's not do this," or he didn't think it was going to get that bad?

He wasn't saying anything. Had y'all ever tied him up before like that? No. Did he think it was just kind of a joke, it wasn't going to be that big of a deal, and it ended up being more than it was? Or do you think he was, like, really that scared and wasn't fighting back and letting him tie him up? Yeah. So, he, are you pouring the water down his face?

I had to. Yeah. Was Big Josh making you? How long did y'all do that for? Was he screaming to stop? Me and Derek was both asking him to stop. How long did it happen? It seemed like it lasted for like hours. Hours? That's a very long time. Yeah. Like he'll do it and then he'll stop and then he'll go sit on the couch.

And then at one point, whenever we'll just shot his breath, he told me to go feed him peanut butter. So you fed him while he was tied up. That's some pretty odd behavior. There's the kids seeing all of it from start to finish,the 11 year old? Derek did, yeah.

So, whenever you're feeding him peanut butter, and he's tied up and there's breaks involved, is he ever trying to level with you guys? "Alright guys, this is enough, that doesn't really feel good at all, it's scaring me." Does he ever try to do any of that? No. Is he really that much, kind of, you know, meek, where he's, you know, allows people to do that to him?

He allows people to pick on him and really don't do nothing. And this lasted for hours. What other torture was involved just besides the towel and the water over the face? He told Derek to go get a bar of soap and he got a sock and he started hitting him with it. And then I asked you earlier if you'd read news articles and one of the articles it says that you beat him with the soap and the sog.

I don't know where that came from. You never beat him with No, they kept asking me that in the interview, did you ever beat him with something, he's got marks all over him, I said no, we just got into a fist fight, and my left hand was in a cast. And before I came down to the station, they told me to remove it.

Oh, and they kept on asking me while my hands were falling on my shoulder, told me to take my hand out of my calf. Yeah. So whenever he's like this for hours, and there's, you know, hitting him with the soap and all that soap, and then there's the water with the towel, what else was involved in the torture?

Just the battery, the water towel, and the bar of soap, and then, that was it. That was it? Whenever the towel was over his face, would he just try to push his face forward where his, you know, his nose is pointing down, his mouth is, you know, or would y'all hold his head back? He kept on moving his arms, trying to get out of the restraint.

And what would y'all do to make sure that he couldn't move? He tied him to a chair. I'm trying to imagine, you know, the towel over the face that's pretty Was he choking on the water a lot? Yeah. What do you think is what caused his death? Well, they I've seen the autopsy and my Potion discovery and they said he had blood in his brain and then he had dirty pond water in his mouth

 Heather gives us a chilling account of the torture inflicted on Little Josh on the night of his death. It's a sobering episode to replay, especially keeping in mind the fact that Little Josh was a vulnerable man with a mental disability who was now being hurt by those he'd entrusted to take care of him.

For several hours throughout the night of April 2nd, Little Josh endured a brutal menu of torture methods. Assaulted with soap wrapped in a sock, Little Josh was waterboarded with a wet rag, an act that simulates the feeling of being drowned. After this, Little Josh was force fed spoonfuls of peanut butter to obstruct his already weakening breathing.

Whether Little Josh didn't fully understand the severity of what was happening, or whether he'd already resigned himself to his step brother's will, Little Josh remained largely passive throughout his ordeal, neither fighting back nor protesting out loud, with only his arms flailing around in distress, as he remained fixed to a chair.

Although Big Josh certainly called the shots, Heather admits that he didn't carry out most of the torture himself. Instead, he sat back and barked instructions for Heather. and their 11 year old son Derek to execute. Despite this, Heather insists that she was acting under Big Josh's coercion, being forced to commit atrocious acts on Little Josh or face the wrath of Big Josh's anger.

Effectively, she sees herself and Derek as puppets at the mercy of the imposing figure of Big Josh and, knowing full well what he was capable of, Heather was too afraid to disobey his orders. But as Little Josh became increasingly unresponsive throughout the night, Heather feared that they'd pushed things too far.

After the break, Heather assesses the extent of Little Josh's injuries.

So did he pass away tied up in the chair? No. So at some point in time y'all untied him from the chair. What did y'all do and how long after, how long did he stay tied up all together you think? At least a couple hours. So y'all untie him and was there talk about what you're going to do next or was Big Josh just telling you as it came along do this, do that?

Well, Big Josh sat on the couch and I untied him and helped him out of the chairs. And he just fell to the floor, but I could see that he was still breathing. Big Josh said, just leave him there. And this is when Derek went outside. He went outside around the dog. Says he was screaming, this is my Who's screaming that?

Derek was. Yeah, he knew that the little boy was the one with the most conscience. But so whenever y'all took him out of the chair, you said he was still alive? He was still alive. And then he just fell to the floor. And then for a moment, I thought he wasn't breathing. So I attempted CPR. And then, so you actually attempted CPR?

Yeah. Is that whenever, little Derek kind of started to get a little bit scared? Yeah, we were both scared. What happened whenever you gave him CPR? Did you pump on his chest or did you blow in his mouth or did you do both? I pushed on his chest and I blew in his mouth. He had blood all over his mouth and the police kept asking me if I was sick because I had blood all over my mouth.

I didn't even know I had it there. Well, I gotta tell you, there's two things that I'm gonna point out at this far that I think is beneficial to you. Number one, it's pretty obvious with your story before we get to the murder that Big Josh is an imposing figure on the both of y'all and you're both scared of him and both can basically do whatever the hell he says.

And number two, Even though you took place, took part in a lot of it, you, the CPR shows that, you know, you're, you have some type of, you know, of course, you don't want to get caught for murder, but also, you know, Big Josh didn't do CPR, did he? Okay, well, that's what I'm talking about. So, I think that's two things going for you, and again, it doesn't make you, you know, not a murderer.

I think there's a lot more information, but, After he, you blow into his mouth, does he kind of, waken up or push back the air or what? I heard something, but I wasn't sure, I wasn't Do you feel, let me ask you this, do you feel like you may have saved his life with that puff of air? I think I did, because the autopsy said he had pond water in his mouth, which means that he was still alive, he just wasn't conscious.

Oh, gotcha. So y'all actually took his body and threw it in a pond? Well, after I gave him CPR and everything, then Josh disappeared and went to the bedroom. And after that, she was going to bed. I'm like, what is going on? I didn't know what to do. So I'm just standing there, and then I had to go get Derek, because, you know, he's scared and freaked out.

Because I thought maybe he was still alive, so I went to go get Derek and calmed him down. Do you think, did everybody else think he was dead or did you, was he alive when you blew that CPR on him? I think he was still breathing because I heard something and the way he was laying on the floor, it looked like he just moved a little bit.

But he's never, from there, he's never gotten back up or anything, huh? No, he's never, he never moved. He didn't move his head and his, you know, eyes switching, nothing. So did you go get Big Josh? Well, after I got Derek inside, big Josh caught us in there, Caleb was already asleep when all the stuff was happening, because after he got pushed and stuff, I had to give him a bath and stuff like that, so he was in bed.

So the, so little Josh was just outside laying down on the porch? No, he's laying in our kitchen floor. Oh. Y'all kept him laying on the kitchen floor? Yeah, cause I went to go get Derek, and then Big Josh caught us all in the bedroom. Asked us what was going on. He didn't know what was going on. I'm like, oh gosh, he's up there, like floors.

We need to make sure he's okay. They're scared. We'll say anything. So he walks off and then I'm trying to tell him that I don't think he's breathing. So he says, well, what are we going to do? What are we going to do? I walked out. I don't remember. What kind of alcohol? Was he just drinking beer or hard liquor or what?

He drinks hard liquor. He was drinking Jack Daniels and Fireball. Yeah, he's getting effed up. So, was he freaking out then after he realized, sh*t, we probably just killed somebody? Yeah, he was freaking out, saying, oh, what am I going to do without you? And I'm like, dude, without me, what do you mean? Like, what did you do?

Oh, he was trying to say, what did you do to this guy? Mm hmm. Do you feel like you played a part in this guy's death?

That's a long pause. Oh, he's doing it because I was told to, I was scared. I didn't think that it would go that far. You didn't think the actions of you, you know, doing that to somebody would result in a death is, in other words. Heather reveals critical details about the aftermath of Little Josh's assault. After a prolonged period of torture, 32 year old Little Josh was untied from the chair and collapsed unresponsive to the ground.

Looking at a later autopsy report, we know that at this point Little Josh was weak, but still alive, opening a window of opportunity for somebody to save his life. Unlike callous big Josh, Heather recognized the severity of his condition in a belated attempt to save his life. She attempted CPR on little Josh's unmoving body.

Big. Josh, on the other hand, reacted with cold indifference to his stepbrother's dire condition, shuffling off to bed and falling sound asleep. When Heather confronted him, he wiped his hands of any responsibility for the murder. Claiming full ignorance about what had happened. When Heather is asked to account for her role in Little Josh's death, she hesitates to give an answer.

From Heather's perspective, Big Josh was the real instigator of her brother's torture and should assume full responsibility for what took place. She sees herself as a bystander, unable to run away or disobey out of fear of Big Josh. While that's true, there's no denying that Heather was still complicit in the death of Little Josh.

She adds, Actively participated in a brutal torture, and she allowed her son to be implicated in his uncle's murder, an incredibly traumatic experience for a young child. But the night wasn't over yet, and with little Josh's body lying on the living room floor, Heather and Big Josh had to make a new plan, fast.

So there was a point in time, he's on that kitchen floor that y'all both did determine he is gone, he's passed away, right? Yeah. And now there's a discussion of what are we going to do? And he's kind of pushing that off to you. What are you saying? Are you, did you go, "are you suggesting that I did this and I'm only responsible?"

Did you ever confront him? Well, whenever he gets drunk, he says, "I don't remember anything." That's his other side. So he was acting like, oh, well, tell me what happened. So I told him what happened. He said, why'd you do that? I was like, cause you told us to. They won't need a sentence to do whenever you're the size you are, name your problems you have.

You know, what do you expect it to do? And he was all talking about taking him down to a cave that he knows down in Elsinore and dropping him off there, like a bottomless cave.

Burning him with tires. And then the last one he suggested was the pond and just take him there. And what was he saying? He'd be saying at work, he works with this guy, he'd have to show up and put on a whole show, he lives with the guy, works with the guy. He's got a lot of lying to do. Was he talking about that?

No, he was just talking about what to do. Just the moment, living in the moment. So, did y'all both agree on the pond? Was that the closest place? Well, I didn't really agree on it. He told me to take him there and then. You took the body to the pond? Josh, me, and Derek both did. Okay. Oh, wow. So y'all got the kid involved.

Did y'all wake him up? No, Derek was still awake. Okay. So y'all take him to this pond. What is little Derek, 11 years old, saying? We shouldn't be doing this or what? He's gonna be in trouble. And I said, why would y'all involve him? I don't understand that. I mean, just That's pretty, irresponsible.

You know? I mean, like, that's, I'm gonna tell you something, I think, I feel like you got a lot to think about. I mean, there's, I don't think you're a killer. I don't think anybody listens, gonna think you're some harsh killer, but they're gonna think that you are a part of someone dying. You know what I mean?

Which is, you know, he was killed, so like, all roads lead back to killer, but I don't think you have it in your heart, but there's just a lot of things, like, that's crazy to have your 11 year old involved. How do you feel about that, me saying that to you? I don't feel good about it. So, and your son's pleading with you, you know, he doesn't like it.

What are you telling him, as a mother, like, it's gonna be okay, we have to do this, or what?

Like, whenever I had to drag the body of it, Josh was on the porch, and Derek was walking with me.

Where's your son now? Who takes care of him? He's in the foster care right now. I mean, that kid's seen a lot. Does the, do the authorities know he's went through that? Yeah, whenever we went to the police station, he told them everything that happened. That your son did? With little Josh showing no signs of life, the conversation turned to disposing of the body.

Big Josh and Heather settled on a hasty plan to hide the body in a shallow pond just a short distance from their front door. Again, involving 11 year old Derek, they dragged the limp body to the pond and waited for it to sink. However, instead of being completely concealed, little Josh's body floated, half submerged in the murky water, conspicuously waiting to be discovered.

It's hard to wrap your head around the trauma young Derek was exposed to that night. Not only was he forced to participate in his uncle's torture, but he was also involved in the cover up, helping to carry and sink his uncle's body. Throughout our conversation, Heather becomes emotional when she talks about her son's ordeal.

She recognizes that she failed in her maternal duty to shield her son from harm, instead exposing him to an unimaginable horror that will undoubtedly have lasting psychological effects. However, in a twist of fate, 11 year old Derek would prove to be the only one with a strong conscience. His good heart would ultimately lead prosecutors to uncover what happened to Josh.

We'll explore this in depth on the next episode of Voices of a Killer.

If you wanna find out what happens next, right now, you can sign up at patreon.com/voicesofakiller. There you can find bonus content, early access, ad free listening, and access to our chat community. So go to patreon.com/voicesofakiller to sign up now, your support. is what keeps us passionate about bringing these stories to you.

That's a wrap on this episode of Voices of a Killer. A big shout out to Sonic Futures who handled the production, audio editing, music licensing, and promotion of this podcast. If you want to hear more episodes like this one, make sure to visit our website at voicesofakiller.com. There you can find previous episodes, transcripts, and additional information about the podcast.

Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thank you for your support and we can't wait to share more stories with you in the future. Thank you for tuning in. I'm your host Toby and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer. 

Ep 68 | Heather Watson Part 3

Before we begin this podcast, please be advised that the following episode contains language that some listeners may find offensive and inappropriate. The opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not reflect the views of the podcast producers. Listener discretion is advised.

Welcome back to the final episode of Heather Watson's Case. When we last left off, Heather and Big Josh made a half hearted attempt to conceal evidence of their torture and murder of Joshua Taylor, better known as Little Josh. As they scrambled to put together a new plan of action, their freedom was to be short lived.

We'll hear about the night that changed their own fates on this episode of Voices of a Killer. So whenever y'all dumped him in the water, did y'all have to push him off or did y'all walk a little ways into the water to get him to sink? Did y'all try to weigh him down? What was that like? I didn't really want to put him in the pond, so I dragged him to the edge and pushed him off a little bit with his face up and somehow the He got turned over.

He turned over. Did he kind of float out a little ways or what? He floated out a little bit. And then what happened? He floated to the bottom? No, he just floated. Did that worry you seeing a body just sitting there at the top of the water? Yeah, it did. And where was Eric and Big Josh whenever you pushed him off like that?

Sitting on the porch. So this pond was off, off of y'all's property? It was on the house, it was like right by the driveway. So now you're going to have your brother in law, basically rotting in a pond next to your driveway for the next, I don't know how long did y'all go with this body in there?

Well after that happened, I sat with Derek on the couch, I said y'all should just sit in there, nobody's really saying anything. And then I said, we have to call the cops. And he's like, give it a minute. I said, no, we have to call the cops. And he's all telling me and Derek what to say, what to do, how to react whenever the cops get there, where to go.

So y'all are planning on calling the cops and going over all the reactions and going through, like, kind of practicing, I guess? Mm hmm. So, what would make him, I mean, y'all put, this is some, I mean, y'all are really bouncing from idea to idea. I mean, let's push him out in the pond and then call the cops. That's, I mean, this is kind of everywhere.

Did you feel like none of this was going to actually work? I knew it wasn't going to work because he wanted it to seem like it was a suicide. He got drunk and wandered off and went to the pond and inside my head I was like, no, because they're never going to believe that. Did you try to say, "hey, we can't do that."

Look, you know, here's all the points of the problem right here. I tried telling him, no, we can't say that. What did he say? He said, "well, we got to." And before he even attempted to call the cops, he called his boss. And he called his sister, she didn't pick up, and then he tried calling his daughter, and me and Derek just sat on our own couch.

He got a hold of his boss, and he started crying, said he found little Josh in a pond, and he basically killed himself. And is that before y'all called the cops, or what? Yeah, and then I tried calling the cops, and he takes my phone, and sits me down and tells me, "make sure you say this, make sure you say that."

How'd you feel about that? I didn't like it. So, how quick did the, did y'all call 911?

So, after we threw him in the pond, we pretty much sat there for two hours, listening to Big Josh telling us what to do, what to say, stuff like that. And, you know, Derek, she's sitting there on the couch, like, I'm going in and out of my head, because I can't really pay attention. What's Derek saying? He's not saying nothing.

He's just holding my hand. Was he scared looking? Crying? Yeah, we both were. So for two hours, y'all got a coaching on all the things to say. And then there was a moment y'all finally had to call 911, correct? And who did the calling? I called and I called the first time and it gave me, like, options. "Press one for so so," and I'm like, okay, I just called 911.

So I tried it again and then I got a hold of somebody and let them know what was going on or what I was supposed to say. So you actually made the 911 call though? Mm hmm. And you had a little script, did you read it? Did you write it down or you just had to try to remember what to say? I just remembered what to say.

28657, Bollinger County. What was that? I need assistance. I do. 28657, 28657, Bollinger County Road 346. My brother is Elmer Thompson. That was 28657, Bollinger County Road 346? Yes, ma'am. And what's going on? And what's going on today? Okay, what was his name?

I'm sorry, what's his name? Taylor. Joshua. Yes, Ryan. What was his last name? Taylor. Taylor? Taylor. oh my gosh. I'm sorry, sir, I'm having a really hard time understanding. Oh my gosh. Taylor, T A Y L O R, Taylor. Okay, how old is he? He's about 30.

What's your name? My name is Joshua Proffer. Can I get your phone number? Yeah, it's 3 2 0 8 3 2 0 8. Oh 6 1 9. Okay. And you said that Joshua isn't breathing? No, he's not breathing . Okay. I'm gonna get somebody out there to help you, okay? Okay, thank you. Stay on the line with me until I can make sure I found this address correctly.

Okay. Oh, f*ck, man. Oh, sh*t. sh*t. Oh, I'm sorry. You said County Road 346, correct? Yes, ma'am, 346. Okay. Can you make sure that your porch light is on and that you've got emergency flashers on a vehicle or something for me? Yeah I can turn them on.

The dramatic 911 call you just heard gives us a sharp insight into Big Josh's state of mind. To deter cops, he played the part of a grieving brother, but his excessive crying quickly aroused suspicion as cops saw through his act right away. Calling the cops in the first place was a haphazard decision that was doomed from the start.

As little Josh lay partially submerged in the pond, Big Josh concocted a plan to make his death look like a suicide, not a murder. For hours, he coached Heather and Derek on what to say when the police arrived to take the statements, setting their stories straight. As Heather points out, Big Josh's story was riddled with obvious holes.

Josh's body was bloodied and bruised, his face lacerated in several places, while his forearms and wrists were cut with visible restraint marks. All this would immediately point to a violent murder, and not suicide and lead cops directly to Big Josh. A man already known for his long history of violent behavior.

So whenever, is she staying on the phone the entire time? Like we got officers on the way, what happened? And she's asking questions, probably, right? No, I told them what happened and that they're on their way. But here's the thing. Whenever Big Josh would get drunk, sometimes he'd call the cops and tell them to take me off the property, because there'd be some times where me and him would get into it because he won't stop.

And me and the kids just want to leave and he won't let us leave. And the cops are there in 20 minutes. They know where we live. They know his history of violence. We called the cops before. But on this night, I don't understand what the hell was going on. The whole time we waited for the cops to get there, being there, crying and freaking out.

It takes three and a half hours to get to our house. So it takes how long? It took three and a half hours to get to the house. And they're like 15 minutes away. Wow. So they were like, they must've had a call. So in there, and then also probably thought it was BS. Do you think they thought it was BS? I don't know, whenever one of the cops got there, I remember seeing him before.

We didn't know where you lived and I'm just looking at him like, these motherf*ckers know where we live. So did this two and a half, three hours that y'all wait on the cops, that y'all kept going out and just looking to see what the body was doing and just sitting there going, I wonder why? I mean, that's a long time.

Well, Big Josh went to sleep.

So when the cops got there, did y'all start on your stories? When the cops got there, they asked what happened. And then the foreigner guy came in there and the lady was with him asking me questions about the kids, which I didn't understand. So all we did was ask about that and I had a feeling that they were going to ask the right questions.

That's what I told them, but they were making this. You, were hoping they would ask the right questions. What do you mean? I guess the right way. So I would tell them what actually happened. Well, what way were they asking you? They were asking me, "oh, was He always hits on you" or, "oh, he's got mental problems.

So what did he do?" So did y'all pretty much all tell your lie like you're supposed to? Like whenever the cops were there, Derek didn't really say much. He just faced up down the hallway, but they took us separately out on the porch. Josh finally came. He got up there and actually like, he was just upset. He was dry heaving and crying. I never seen him cry, so I knew that wasn't a real cry, what he was saying. So the cop that was there asked me to come outside. I seemed more calm, so I went outside and he was asking me about my hands, why are they swollen? And I tried telling them. Did they arrest y'all there? No, they said that we need to come down for an interview and then they'll let us go.

They brought you down there, they interviewed you, and then finally cuffed you there. They didn't let you out, did they? No. Y'all's story, there was just no way that it was gonna make it. Everything was just completely effed. After responding to the crime scene at one in the morning, Bollinger County investigators dismissed the claim that little Josh had committed suicide.

They quickly ascertained that Heather and Joshua were responsible for the 32 year old man's death. 11 year old Derek's testimony proved crucial to their investigation. Because of his juvenile status, Derek would only be referred to as an unnamed witness in later news reports. But it was his eagerness to tell police the full truth during his interrogation that connected dots for investigators and helped them make sense of the evidence they had collected at the house. Although Big Josh had tried to coerce his son to lie, little Derek stayed true to his conscience and by doing so, he brought to light the truth of his uncle's painful death. For her part in the killing, Heather was charged with second degree murder and sentenced to 25 years in prison.

A sentence that has since been downgraded. Throughout our conversation, Heather repeatedly distances herself from taking full responsibility for the crime and she maintains that Big Josh quote unquote "forced her" to carry out something she didn't want to do. Although Heather is not the cold blooded killer some would assume her to be, her moral position in this sadistic murder is ambiguous.

At the same time, Heather is both a victim of domestic abuse hamstrung by a terrifying partner and she is a participant in a horrific murder. Although she showed some remorse by trying to resuscitate little Josh, she also exposed her son to an incredibly disturbing incident. With 18 years left to serve on her sentence, Heather has plenty of time to grapple with the life choices she's made and turn her life around from her past failures.

Before closing off this interview, I wondered whether Heather's time in prison has given her pause to reflect on her responsibility in this crime. We'll hear her final thoughts after the break.

I figured, I pulled an eye at first, but something inside of me was trying to tell him the truth, but I just couldn't get it out. I was scared, because you don't know how intimidating Big Josh is. I mean, I lived there for eight and a half years, perfect. Well, I would agree, like I said, but, you know, that you probably are scared of this guy, obviously this guy is even so scared he allows him to time up and not just get the hell out of there, but that's the thing, the get out of the hell there part, I think that, you know, it probably is hard to get out of there, I know that in situations it probably is, but That could have been one of your options instead of the death and torture of somebody, because I don't know, that would take a lot for me to be scared of somebody to make me torch another person, you know, but you were also very mad at little Josh, you just got in a fight with him.

So maybe you had a little bit of motivation to, to be mean to him. I don't know. You were the one that was there, not me, but it's just a sh*tty situation because, especially because your son, you know, being so young, it just makes me wonder how he's going to grow up and, you know, if he's going to have issues from that.

And that's a big deal. I'm certain you realize that, right? He's having trouble. He's on medication. I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, that's, it's not like he caught a glimpse of it or, you know, and then y'all put them away so he didn't see any more, y'all actively had him like involved in it, almost every aspect of it, which is just crazy from the start all the way to the line.

that's a big deal. I didn't want him involved in it, but I had no choice. Well, what did they sentence you to? You said you got 18 years now. Do you, what do you think you deserve for that? What is the proper sentence for your role? Nothing? Five years, 10 years? I believe since, you know, me and him got into a fight and then I was forced to do that. It don't matter if I was forced or not, I still did it. I think maybe five to eight years would have been doable, so I would have had a chance to go out there and get back to my kids. Would you agree with me if I told you, you definitely need like some kind of rehabilitation? Yeah, I'm on meds now, and they're trying to get me into classes to help deal with grief, stuff like that. What is prison like for you? It's been difficult. You have a lot of trouble in there? You get in fights? No, I don't get in fights. I mainly just stick to myself, but not having anyone to help me really hurts. Like my sisters, they visited me in jail. Yeah. And then since I got to prison, I haven't returned any of my phone calls or put money in my books like they said, so, you know, I'm afraid to go on hikes and stuff like that.

Well, I appreciate you opening up to me. I hope you, do what you gotta do in there and, you know, make yourself a better person and hopefully you can have a relationship with your son and, show him good stuff, you know what I mean? Yeah, we still write each other. Yeah, I hope you do.

I hope you keep in touch with him and, you know, do what you got to do. Okay. All right. All right. Take it easy. Bye bye.

On the next episode of Voices of a Killer. I have two murder cases. When I was 14, a woman was trying to murder my mom and I stabbed her with a letter opener. They were in the process of kidnapping me, and my mom was just trying to get me away from them. And the woman, like, tackled her, and was beating her into the ground.

And I had a letter opener in my hands. It was eight inch blades. I stabbed her in the back once. Did she actually express to you that she wanted to kill herself, her, your grandma? She actually expressed to me on like three separate occasions that she wanted me to kill her via, like she'd make weird comments that she wanted me to take her off to the woods to shoot her because she was just tired of life.

How did your mom feel about you killing her mother? I don't know.

I want to thank Heather for sharing her story with us today. Her ability to be open and honest is what makes this podcast so special. That's a wrap on this episode of Voices of a Killer, a big shout out to Sonic Futures who handled the production, audio editing, music licensing, and promotion of this podcast.

If you want to hear more episodes like this one, make sure to visit our website at voicesofakiller.com. There you can find previous episodes, transcripts, and additional information about the podcast. Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback helps us improve and reach new listeners.

Thank you for your support and we can't wait to share more stories with you in the future. Thank you for tuning in. I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer.