Ep 63 | PAMELA FREGIA'S DAUGHTER Transcript

Ep 63 | Pamela Fregia's Daughter Part 1

Before we begin this podcast, please be advised that the following episode contains language that some listeners may find offensive and inappropriate. The opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not reflect the views of the podcast producers. Listener discretion is advised. On this episode of Voices of a Killer, we revisit the case of Pamela Fregia from episode seven.

Today, we are joined by Pamela's daughter, Hannah. Now I get a lot of messages through social media about our episodes, and this one really stood out to me. Hannah has a tragic and traumatic connection to this case, as she actually witnessed the crime that her mother committed. In March of 2011, Victoria Perez, a young woman of 8 months pregnant vanished without a trace after a routine doctor's appointment in Oberlin, Louisiana.

For years, her disappearance remained a mystery until recent developments shed light on the truth. Developments that were brought about by Pamela's children, Hannah and her sister. This unique and one of a kind view of what happened on that day will truly send shivers down your spine. So sit back, listen closely, and join us as we bring you this exclusive interview with Hannah on this episode of Voices of a Killer.

Hey, Hannah. Yeah. How are you doing? I'm good. So, I just want to kind of go through some questions with you and if you don't mind, because I know that whenever you actually messaged me, you literally said, you know, "hey, my name is Hannah. I'm Pam's daughter. You did a podcast recently on her. She lied about everything that transpired on that day."

And that you knew everything. So that's pretty, that's pretty deep, especially the fact that you're, you know, her daughter, pretty surprised that you reached out to me, especially being the daughter of, you know, the murderer, Pamela, what, what prompted you to do that? My sister sent me the link and I was like, I guess that I know the truth needs to be heard because, you know, it's not like, good to be lying about stuff like that, like continuing to lie like you need to just accept what you did.

So, did you listen to the entire podcast? Yeah, I listened to the entire thing. Was it hard to listen to? It wasn't hard to listen to because she was lying the whole time. Is that basically her little, the way she's been saying it the entire time? Yeah, and it really made, it really made my nerves bad because she was like, "Oh, I just thought she was chunky."

Like, why would you say that? And then she was laughing, like that's, that's... That's not... Yeah.

From this brief introduction of Hannah, we can already tell that she is frustrated with what Pamela said during her episode. Whether it's a lifelong struggle with the trauma of the events that took place that fateful day, or the devastation of losing her mother from a young age, needless to say her frustration is justified.

Hannah's gracefully come on to voices of a killer to set the record straight. Referring back to the original episode with Pamela Fregia, Hannah calls out the way that Pam talked about the victim, Victoria Perez. Victoria Perez, a beloved native of Le Camp, Louisiana, was a young woman filled with aspirations for her future.

According to her family, Victoria was a gentle person who unfortunately crossed paths with Pamela in March of 2011 at the age of 22, leaving her family and community devastated. Let's listen back to that section that Hannah is referring to so we can get a deeper understanding of her frustration. And at no point in time do you see a hump where you're like, hey, congratulations or anything like that?

No, I don't want to say it like this, but I just thought she was chunky. So you really don't know that this girl is pregnant whatsoever? I had left and went to my mom's house and her boyfriend, Byron, my first mom, not my adopted mom. I left Victoria and him at my house. Who's him? My friend Ashley had introduced me to this guy and he was a Mexican guy and his name's Joker and I really didn't know his first name, but I knew where he lived and everything.

So is this the guy you're dating? He was the guy that actually, he had come over and we were smoking m*jo together. So he's the guy that you're in a relationship with? We were talking, but I never... okay, so this guy you're talking to, his name's Joker, and he's left with the victim at your house, and you left the victim and Joker together, right?

Yeah. Okay. Where'd you go? I went to my birth mother's house and her boyfriend's house to pick up my kids. This clip from the original episode with Pamela Fregia introduces two main points for Pamela's claim of innocence in the tragic murder of Victoria Perez. Firstly, that Pamela denied knowing that Victoria was pregnant.

This became a crucial point for the state's prosecution's case on convicting her of first degree murder, a premeditation for the act of murder, and thus fetal abduction. The second is the introduction of the other main character in this story, the mysterious man called Joker. While the details about Joker are scarce, Pamela said that she left Victoria in Joker's care at her home.

And it was Joker that murdered Victoria. But as we will hear from Hannah, it turns out Joker might actually be a real person, just not the one that she was hoping for. Yeah, so did y'all, you and your sister that called you and told you, did y'all both see this happen? Cause I know y'all were the ones that were there, right?

Yes, we did. We both did. Yeah. So, how old were you? I was 10 years old. 10 years old. So, you're pretty much cognitive of what's going on around you, even when somebody, an adult, is probably trying to hide it. What kind of person was your mom back before this even happened? Was she pretty, what you would call, normal?

She was pretty normal in the beginning and then like when her and my dad got a divorce she just like it just transpired down there she just started doing drugs and like choosing men and stuff over her kids. So this guy that she was, supposedly killed to to you know take the baby and show him that you know they had a baby did you ever meet this guy?

No, I think she was trying to reference my stepdad because he had like clown tattoos. So like the Joker, I guess that's what she made up as him. But he was not there when it happened. He was in Texas. Well, I'm talking about the guy she's trying to get back. Is that the same guy? Yeah, that's the same guy.

His name is Clyde. Oh, they don't call him Joker though? No, I'm not sure. I mean, he got like clown tattoos on his face, but I guess I don't, I never heard nobody call him Joker. From what Hannah is saying, I feel more inclined to believe that Clyde and Joker are the same person. Hannah states that Clyde had clown tattoos on his face, which seems like a plausible case for the nickname of Joker.

Hannah also states that Clyde was down in Texas at the time of the murder, something that was backed up by court documents. It's also something that Pamela herself pointed out in her episode. Clyde was no angel when it came to his marriage to Pamela. Pamela faced a torrent of physical violence from Clyde, and eventually Clyde left Pamela for a job in Texas.

Let's listen back to Pamela's episode to hear just how tumultuous their relationship really was. How long were y'all together? Four years. Four years. Almost five. Did it ever get turbulent where things didn't seem to be working out any longer? He started drinking a lot and he started doing crystal m*th and smoking m*jo and he was taking pills and so he started becoming very abusive.

And like when I would be at work, he would call me and say, "I saw you, you're not at work" and I was at work, but he would just constantly come to my job, making sure I was there. I worked at the nursing home and he was always looking for me. Take drugs maybe paranoid maybe Yeah keeping tabs on you. Keep tabs on you.

So you said he was doing m*th, he was drinking, were you just you were completely sober during this event or were you partaking? Yeah I had my job and they did random drug tests, so I didn't do drugs. So you never got high. Every once in a while. Okay. No, I had got high before, but when I got that job, I had quit.

And then he just kept going. And it got worse and worse. So you stopped for the job, he was getting high and becoming abusive. What made the relationship come to an end? One night my sister owned the bar in the town we live in, and he went to the bar with my cousin, and I locked the door because he had a key.

Whenever he came in, like he came to the door, he was beating on the door and ringing the doorbell. So, I went and unlocked the door and I was like, "why didn't you just use your key?" And he started beating me, like, "why did you lock the door? Who's in here with you?" And it was just me and my kids there. And so I ran to the kitchen and I picked up a chair to try to block him from getting to me and he took the chair and threw it and he picked me up by my neck and threw me down and we had to throw him in the car and he threw me down on the floor and when I woke up, he had the chair over my body and he was sitting on top of the chair with his feet holding my hands down and he was like, can you get up?

And I was like, I couldn't. I had an egg the size of a softball on the back of my head. So, I passed back out. When I woke up, he was crying. He was apologizing to me. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. And, so, I went to my auntie's house the next day. And my eyes were all black. And she told me that if I I didn't make him leave, she was going to disown me.

And I called his mom and asked his mom to come get him. So she said that she had a job for him in Texas. So she worked at the plant and come got him. Despite the violence she received at the hands of her husband, Pamela still felt a strong connection to him. This is something often seen amongst survivors of domestic violence, and Pamela remains steadfast in her desire to win her husband's love.

In an attempt to win him back, Pamela hatched a desperate plan to deceive her estranged husband. Pretending to be pregnant in a bid to reignite their fractured relationship, she falsified sonogram photos, and according to a Wikipedia page on which her name appears, this was despite the fact that her family believed that she had already had a hysterectomy.

Now, one thing I must add is that this Wikipedia page is on a crime known as fetal abduction. To quote from this article, fetal abduction refers to the rare crime of child abduction by kidnapping of an at-term pregnant woman and extraction of her fetus through a crude caesarean section. In this small number of reported cases, a few pregnant victims and about half of their fetuses survived the assault and non-medically performed caesarean.

After the break, we hear from Hannah on how the day of the murder played out.

Where was Victoria that day? Did she actually go and get her at the hospital who were there for clothes? One of my cousins actually had a baby the day that we went and I went with her. She told me that we was going to see my cousin's baby. I'm not sure what cousin it was. Did she lie about that? Did y'all see your cousin a baby?

No, we did not see a baby. We saw Victoria. Like, we went to some part of the hospital, I'm not sure what part it was, but I thought we was going to see, like, you know, the baby or whatever, but instead we went with Victoria and they started talking and I don't know what they was talking about because I was just running around being a kid, like, trying, I was ready to go.

And her and Pam was talking and we went into an ultrasound with her. So she knew she was pregnant. She knew that she was pregnant. I mean, the prosecutors put it together where she actually stalked her there and went over there and lured her from the hospital or something. Yeah, she actually did lure her from the hospital.

I did hear her tell the lady that she had baby clothes, which she did because she had lied about being pregnant and his family threw her a baby shower and so she had baby clothes and stuff from that baby shower. Pamela? Yes. They threw Pamela a baby shower? Yes, his family. So she had everybody going like she was pregnant?

Yes. Okay, and then so whenever she went to the hospital, did Victoria actually leave with y'all or did she just agree to come later? No, she left with us. Wow, so did y'all ever, did you ever meet Victoria before? No, but I know that she was my dad's cousin, but I've never met her previous, like previously before that, that I can remember.

What's the discussion in the car like whenever she's bringing the victim to the house? I really can't remember. I know they was talking about the baby clothes and stuff and you know how she was happy to be pregnant and happy to be about to have the baby and stuff. And then we had got to the house. And me, my sister, and my little cousin Bryce, he was like a baby, like, a couple, like, not a couple months old, but like, probably like close to one, I want to say, and my little brother was there.

The information she tells us here is in line with court documents. Pamela lured Victoria from the hospital to her home, where she eventually met her demise. During that time at the hospital, Hannah states that Victoria had an ultrasound which proves that Pamela must have known that she was pregnant. In Pamela's episode, she claims that she invited Victoria over to her house to smoke synthetic marij**na.

If you listen carefully to the way Pamela answers my questions about this situation. I think you can make your own mind up as a listener as to who is telling the truth.

Around this time that you're telling him "hey, I'm pregnant," which you were trying to secure your relationship with him, you actually knew of someone that was pregnant or you just, you already knew who they were. No, actually she had came to my house and asked for a ride home and I was going to take her to her mom's house and drop her off. So you'd never met the victim before? She just showed up at your house and said, "I need a ride?" No, I had actually knew her.

My children's father, I think they were somehow cousins and she'd been to my house before. I just hadn't seen her in a long time. And her sister had actually been homeless at one time and I let her and her baby stay with me at my house with her boyfriend. So you knew her prior to her asking for a ride?

Yes. Whenever she came to your house for a ride, how far along was she? I really honestly didn't even know she was pregnant at the time. Okay. She didn't look to me to be pregnant. You called the victim your friend, but you didn't know your friend was pregnant? No. I had not seen her in a long time. So when you reunite, she never said, "Hey, I'm eight months pregnant?"

No. But it's your friend? Yeah. I mean, I know it's hard for you to believe this, but, like, her sister had even stayed at my house with our baby and our boyfriend. The victim's sister? Yes. Do you know the victim's sister too? So, you really are friends with the victim, the sister, the whole family? I was friends with them, but then, you know how, like, when me and my kid's dad got divorced, people just grow apart, and Sure.

And then whenever you come back together, usually it's, "hey friend, guess what? I'm pregnant." No. That never occurred. Y'all reunited an old friend at your house. She's like literally one month from giving birth to another human being, and she never said, "hey, I'm pregnant. I'm pregnant." It was, "do you want to come smoke?"

And she said yes. Because like eight months is you could give birth right now and it'd be okay another month, maybe even a month before that. And usually women are pretty out there at eight months, it's very noticeable. You never noticed a hump on her? No. You said that she was overweight? Yeah. Like how much overweight?

What do you think she weighed? Maybe two, a little over two, maybe. That's not really that big for you could tell somebody's pregnant. You really never knew she's pregnant? You don't have to believe me. No, I can't believe you, but let me ask you this. When you're burying her and you're lifting around, you never noticed like a hump then, at any point in time, or did, was it the courts that finally informed you?

Like, "Oh, by the way, this woman that y'all buried was pregnant." At any point in time before the courts tell you, did you know? No, actually they had something on the news about her and that's when I found out. So why is it that the prosecutors say that you actually had met her at a hospital where she was eight months pregnant?

I don't know. And tell me, why would prosecutors think and state definitively that you are solely responsible for her death. I don't know. I told him I was there. So you're actually claiming that someone else took this girl's life? Yes. What's the discussion in the household when she's there? "Hey, you want a drink?"

Like, how's the baby coming along? What's going on? Tell me, what's the discussion like? We were just laughing and joking and we were getting high, you know, I was like, Oh, I got to actually, we had just got to my house. What are you getting high on? Yeah, he was m*jo. What's m*jo? Synthetic marij**na. Alright, okay.

So, this pregnant girl is actually smoking this synthetic marij**na? Yeah. This retelling of the day of the murder comes from a brave place for Hannah. As listeners, we have to acknowledge just how traumatic it must be to relive these details, and for that I thank Hannah for her bravery. Her innocence as a child was taken away from her by having to witness such a gruesome crime. Something that we will hear Hannah talk about on the next episode of Voices of a Killer.

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I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer.

Ep 63 | Pamela Fregia's Daughter Part 2

Welcome back to Voices of a Killer and to this, part two of this episode focused on Hannah, the daughter of Pamela Fregia. When we last left off, Hannah was detailing the day of the tragic murder of Victoria Perez. Lured from the hospital back to Pamela's house, 10 year old Hannah witnessed this brutal and senseless act at the hands of her mother.

Now we will hear Hannah tell her firsthand experience of that traumatic and tragic act on this episode of Voices of a Killer. So whenever y'all got there, how long was it till y'all showed up at the house that she, you know, went ahead and attacked her? I would say about 20 or 30 minutes most because my grandma had actually came and dropped my siblings off and my little cousin, she came and dropped them all.

So besides you, the victim, and your mother, how many other people were there too? No, it was just her, me, and my, other siblings, my little brother, my little sister, and Bryce. And where were you whenever she attacked? We was all sitting in the living room, and she was like, me and my sister was sitting there, and the lady was walking down the hall, and Pam walked behind, yes, and Pam walked behind her, and she had a hammer behind her head, I mean behind her back, and I looked at my sister, and I'm like, "what is she doing?"

And so we was like just sitting there and then all of a sudden we just started hearing a lady scream and me and Lindsey got up and went to my back and Pam was over her hitting her in the head. And she looked at us and just slammed the door and me and my sister was just standing there crying. Wow. That is intense.

So let me ask you, did you actually see your mother hit this victim over the head, Victoria? Yes, I did. Sure, sure. So after she slammed the door, how long did you continue to hear the screaming? It was like 15 minutes and then Pam came out the room covered in blood. She was crying and the lady, she was just like making like gurgling sounds like she was still alive.

But I will remember that to this day. Like it was so traumatic. So after your mother killed this girl, she came out breathing hard, probably in a. Blood all over her. She said, you said she started crying. Yeah, she was crying and then she told us that if we told anybody that she would kill us. Did y'all go back there and look at the body?

Like, check everything out? Did y'all, were y'all allowed to do that? She actually moved her in the hallway and we could see the body. Was it still alive when she moved it? Was it still struggling? Yeah, she was still alive. Like, she was making, like, gargling sounds. Like, she was trying to breathe. How long did that last?

I mean, did she, how did she finish her off? Did she continue hitting her again or, or what happened? I don't know. She just left her there, and she was, like, she just stopped. She just finally passed away?

Yeah. Wow, that's, that's so traumatic, I just, I can feel it, you know what I mean? So, she's in the hallway and she finally passes away, y'all are probably still just completely shocked over this. I mean, this is a traumatic thing. Hannah points out that it was Pamela who murdered Victoria. This is something that must have been so horrific for a child to witness.

It is difficult to wrap your head around, and her ability to retell these details takes true bravery. In her episode, Pamela claimed that it was Joker who murdered Victoria, and that she was not at the house at the time of the murder. Rather that she went to her mother's house, while Joker and Victoria smoked synthetic marij**na together, apparently the whole reason Victoria was at Pamela's house in the first place.

We now know that Joker was more than likely her estranged husband Clyde who, at the time, was away in Texas. So, even if this Joker did exist, Pamela's decision to not only leave Victoria, but Hannah and the other children in her home in Joker's care is an odd one. According to Pamela, she had limited knowledge of who Joker was. So surely leaving her cousin with this strange man might have been risky.

Nevertheless, in her story, Pamela returned back to the house to find a scene of horror. Let's listen back to hear Pamela's take on the story. You go back to the house where Joker and the victim is, what did you see? When I went in, it was like quiet in there, so I was like "Hello!?" And nobody was in there. I went in my room and Victoria was on my floor and it was bloody everywhere.

In the living room, in your bedroom, kitchen? My bedroom. She was dead? Yeah, I guess. You guess? Looked dead to me. Yeah. Okay, so she's dead in your bedroom. What's your reaction? I started screaming and I grabbed my phone and he threw my phone down and Joker threw your phone down? Yes. What's he saying to you while you're screaming?

He's just "shut up" and he was cussing me and everything and I was like What are the kids doing? Just freaking out. They were in the living room watching TV. I just trying to crack hands off. Certainly they're watching TV and they're hearing you screaming about a dead body. They didn't break free from the tv?

Yes. Okay. Hannah, did they run back to the bedroom? Yes. Hannah, did. She see the dead body? Yes. What was her reaction? How old is she? I think she was around 10 maybe, or 11 here. Okay, so she's 10 or under? Did she understand that there was a dead body? Yes, I'm sure she did. Okay, what's her reaction? She didn't do anything and I was just like, "oh my god," and I just left out of the bedroom and I took her back in the living room and I was sitting on the couch holding her and he comes in there and he starts hollering and stuff and I just was freaking out.

Okay, so most of the time when people see a dead body, comforting the kids is one of those things that's happened. But the next thing that they do is they pick up the phone, they call police, they call ambulance. When did that occur? Did y'all call the police or anything? No. He had thrown my phone down and broke it.

Okay. Did you think about taking the kids and running? What happened next? Yes. I did think about it, but he told me we didn't leave. So did you at any point go, "what happened? Why is there a dead body in my room?" Yeah. I didn't say anything actually. I just sat there and held my kids. Okay. So, tell me what happens next.

What's his demeanor, Joker? He was running around back and forth to the living room and back to my bedroom. And so, finally he was like, "come here, come here." So, I was like, "no," and he said, "come here." And I went in there and he was like, "help me." And I was like, "no." And so then he was like, "but you're going to go to jail for sure."

and I was like, so I helped him clean up everything. Why did you help him clean up a murder? Because he said it was in my house and it freaked me out. I had never been in trouble and it just freaked me out really bad. So what does this body look like when you see it on the floor? Is it peaceful looking?

Is it stabbed to death and look like a tragedy just happened? What does it look like? No, she just had a shot on her, like a red spot on her head and there was blood all over my floor and it was just like a big puddle of blood on the floor. So at what point did you say, "Joker, why did you shoot this girl?" I never did.

Was she face up? Yes. It looks like she's been shot in that room. Yes. You never asked why you and you cleaned up the body? I didn't. I never asked Why? Because I was scared and I was wondering if he was gonna do the same thing to me and my kids. I didn't know. Listening back to Pamela's episode again, it's eerie to hear her reference Hannah, the now grown woman we are speaking to as a 10 year old child.

Hannah's vivid recollection paints a horrific scene. Pamela attacking Victoria with a hammer while Hannah and her siblings watched in terror. According to Hanna, the brutality and immediate aftermath, including Pamela's threat to kill them if they told anyone, are etched deeply into her memory. This account is starkly different from Pamela's, who claims she returned home to find Victoria already dead, and a man named Joker threatening her.

Pamela's story is filled with inconsistencies, especially with the questionable presence of Joker. and that a gun was used to kill Victoria. Hannah's detailed account, contrasted with Pamela's vague and shifting narrative, suggests a deeper truth rooted in Hannah's traumatic childhood memories. Studies show that childhood trauma can enhance memory accuracy for traumatic events.

According to the National Child Traumatic Stress Network, Traumatic experiences can lead to vivid and detailed recollections due to the intense emotional impact. This makes Hannah's account not only plausible, but likely more accurate, highlighting the devastating effects of witnessing such violence at a young age.

After the break, Hannah tells us what really happened during the aftermath of this tragic event.

So, what's the next step after she passes away in the hallway? Pam gets her, wraps her up in a blanket and puts her in a box, like a, like a plastic box. And she, like, move her car to the back of the yard. And, like, brings her out the back door and puts her in the trunk. And when she puts her in the trunk, she brings, like, me, all of us, to this, like, river bridge and she puts the lady in there, like, she sets her on fire.

Wow. So y'all watched her like the she would she like put like gas or something on it? Yeah, she did. She put gas on her. So one of the things that that made me want to believe that Pamela had some kind of help is because the body was moved from where it was killed and bodies dead weight is really hard for somebody to move especially a woman and then especially a pregnant woman she's trying to move.

Is Pamela a strong woman? How did she handle all that? Nobody was there to help her. Literally, nobody. Okay. No, I know. I believe you. I just, you know, from the beginning of the story, it's like, yeah, you know, bodies aren't, you know, especially picking up, putting it in her trunk and taking it out of the house.

You know, that's a big deal, especially for a woman. A strange sight to see where somebody is trying to get a whole body in the vehicle while their kids are watching. I guess she just had so much adrenaline from what happened that she was able to, I don't know, but there was nobody there to help her. So after she burned the body and I guess she gets in the car, what's the, for you remember whenever she gets in the car, what do you remember about that?

Uh, that little time period, what did she say or do? She really didn't say too much of anything. We just went to the bridge and she got the, like, it was like darker and she got the lady out and, like, it was like in like a seclusion, like more of a seclusion area, like off of the bridge. And she just set the lady on fire and this truck started pulling up back there and she like hurried up and put it out.

What started before she put it out? What's that? Like a truck started coming back, like just to go to the river and she hurried up and put like the fire out and put the lady back in the box. Wow. Gosh. Gosh. She must have been just frantic doing all this, right? I'm guessing because she just, I don't know.

What did she do after she put the burnt body back in the box? She puts her back in the trunk and then we go down the road. Wow. And she puts her in like, okay, so my aunt owns like property. And like, it's like a secluded area, like, in the woods, and she gets out. I'm from Louisiana, and I know that part of the woods, it's all pine trees, and just, you know, a lot.

Yeah. Yeah, I know that. Okay, go ahead. So, she puts the lady, like, deep in the woods, like, that night, she puts her in the woods, and then, after that, she just leaves her there for months. Hanna recounts in vivid detail how Pamela wrapped Victoria's body in a blanket, placed it in a plastic box and transported it to a secluded river bridge.

There, Pamela attempted to burn the body, only to extinguish the fire and conceal the remains when a truck approached. Eventually, Pamela moved the body to her aunts secluded property, leaving it there for a month. Pamela's account, however, tells a different story. she claims that Joker orchestrated it.

Ated the disposal. According to Pamela, she helped joker move the body wrapped in a blanket out of the house and into the trunk of a car. Pamela describes driving with Joker and the kids to a remote location where Joker buried the body while she stood by terrified and compliant. Let's listen back to that part of Pamela's episode now.

So at no point in time you were like, let's make up a plan. I'm gonna grab the kids and get away and run to the police. Okay, so after everything's discovered, who came up with the plan? Joker's like, "we've got to bury her. We've got to burn her." Bury her, yeah. So you help him move the body around? Yeah. I got a blanket and put her in the blanket and carried her out. And where were the kids? They were in the living room. And they knew that the... one of them saw that there was a dead body, right? So she, Yeah. She, so she knew what y'all were doing was putting a dead body. She didn't know what we were doing because she knew she had seen and she didn't see us take her out of the car. So your daughter that saw that there was a dead body, didn't know what was happening afterwards?

So somewhere along the line, this girl's, there was a dead body in my room. Like, and did she never like question like the next day? Like, so what happened to that girl that was dead in your room? No, she never asked. You and Joker put her on a blanket, the victim, and you pick up this blanket with a dead body on it and you shuffle them through the house.

Yeah. When you shuffle this body through the house, are the kids seeing you holding a blanket with a body on it? No, they didn't see that. And y'all go outside. How far away from the house did you go with this victim? The car was parked in the back of my house and they put her in the trunk. So you got to the car, but you delivered it to the back of the car and then he lifted her up, puts her in the trunk, right?

Yeah. Okay. Now is there a time where you say, so what happened? I never said anything. You never asked, why did you kill this one? I was afraid of him. Why were you afraid? We've never been around anything like that. Okay. So he puts her in the trunk, he shuts the trunk. What happens after that? He leaves in my car.

So he takes her in your car. He drives away with the dead body. We all got in the car and we all left. You and the kids got in the car with the dead body? Yeah. We rode down by the river. There's a river not far from where I live. Is he saying anything on the way? No. Were you freaked out? Yeah, I was really freaked out.

What are the kids, like the oldest one, the one that saw the body probably knows that. They were, we were just sitting in the back seat and I had, I had my son on my lap and my daughters were on both sides of me and I had my arms wrapped around. The one that saw the body though, she was a little bit more mature and kids are really resilient.

They can pick up on things. Did she know that there was something really bad going on? I feel like she knew something was going on because he, I wouldn't, I would never let anyone drive my car. And y'all drove how far away from the house? Five miles maybe. And then y'all got out? Yeah. The kid stayed in the car?

Yeah. And what'd y'all do? Y'all took the body out? No, he got out and he told me to get out. So I got out and he was like, are you gonna call the cops? And I was like, no, I'm not gonna call the cops. And I wanted to call the cops, but I didn't have a phone. You were scared. So he was like, yeah. And he was like, I'm just running around the car and I've been there crying, and I was like, "you can just let us leave."

And I said "you could just take my car" and he was like, "no, just shut the F up." And I just was ready to go. I didn't know what to do. Scared, scared for my kids. I was just like, you know. You all are outside of the car talking about this? Yes. At what point did y'all open up the trunk? He didn't open up the trunk.

We drove to the land and he looked around out there and then we went back to my house and got a shovel and we went back to the land and buried her. So did y'all still have the kids with you? Yeah, the whole time. Y'all pulled the body out with the kids in the car? Yeah, but it was dark outside and they didn't see that part.

How far did y'all carry the body from the car to where you buried her? I don't know how to measure like a hundred feet maybe. I don't know. It was a pretty good weight. And you just had one shovel and I guess he dug? Yeah. What was the discussion like while he was digging a hole for the victim? There was none.

Were you just standing with the kids or are you standing there with him digging the hole or what? I was just sitting on the ground. How long did it take for him to dig that hole? A while. I don't really know. It was a while. Like hours? It felt like it. Were the kids saying, Hey, I want to go back to the house.

I'm tired. No, I had fell asleep in the car. Okay. So how, how deep did he dig the hole? It wasn't that deep. And she was still in the blanket. You helped him when he was done. You helped him put her in the hole. Yeah. And then he buried it back. And then you, Joker and the kids just drove back to the house. No, he drove to a gas station in Andrew, Louisiana. He was with y'all and the kids? Yes. He was driving. And he got out and got in the car with a guy. So he left? Yes. And you take the kids and you drive back to your house? No, I drove to my birth mom's house because I didn't want to go back to the house. These discrepancies in Pamela's story are striking and cannot be ignored, particularly given the traumatic nature of the event and the fact that Hannah was just a child when it happened.

We must remember that Hannah's young age at the time might influence her recollection, but it also speaks to the profound impact such an experience can have on a person. Child's memory. Her vivid descriptions provide a haunting perspective that challenges Pamela's narrative and raises critical questions about the truth.

In our next episode, we will delve deeper into how Hannah and her sister played a crucial role in bringing their mother Pamela to justice. Their courage and determination to seek the truth despite the trauma they endured are pivotal to understanding the full scope of this tragic case. Join us as we continue to unravel the complexity.

and uncover the real story behind Victoria Perez's murder on the next episode of Voices of a Killer.

If you want to find out what happens next, right now, you can sign up at patreon.com/voicesofakiller. There you can find bonus content, early access, ad free listening, and access to our chat community. So go to patreon.com/voicesofakiller to sign up now. Your support. is what keeps us passionate about bringing these stories to you.

Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you You get your podcasts, your feedback helps us improve and reach new listeners. Thank you for your support and we can't wait to share more stories with you in the future. Thank you for tuning in.

I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer.

Ep 63 | Pamela Fregia's Daughter Part 3

Welcome back to Voices of a Killer. In our last episode, we heard the harrowing and conflicting accounts of the murder of Victoria Perez, as recounted by Pamela Fregia and her daughter, Hannah. In our upcoming episode, we'll dive into the remarkable journey of Hannah and her sister as they bravely navigated the aftermath of this horrific crime.

Despite the trauma of their past, these young women played a pivotal role in bringing their mother, Pamela, to justice. We'll explore their courageous efforts to seek the truth and understand the deep complexities of their current relationship with Pamela. Join us as we continue to unravel this gripping and emotional story, uncovering the impact of their actions and the lasting effects on their lives.

Let's begin with Hannah talking about how the family moved house shortly after the burial of Victoria Perez in this episode of Voices of a Killer. And then whenever we moved, like, we ended up moving, I guess, I don't know, I guess it was just eating her up, like, that she know that she killed the lady in that house?

Yeah. And so we ended up moving in, like, to, like, where they found the. How much longer did y'all move? I want to say a year. She ended up moving the lady to where we stayed at, and I think she burned like some of her remains. I'm not sure. So she actually moved her a third time after when y'all moved after the year she took the body with y'all?

Yeah, she brought it to where we stayed at. She put it in the woods. Wow. And yeah, that's crazy. Did you go with her whenever she took the body with, with you? No, I just remember her telling us that she put the lady in the woods and I go in the woods. So how much time goes by that this body sits in the woods?

I'm not even sure. Because after that, like, I don't know, after, after all of that happened, and she moved that lady for the final time, I don't know how long she was in there, because, like, she just, the box wasn't there no more one day. Yeah. Cause we can kind of see it from our house, like, where she had her at, it wasn't, like, too far, like, you could still see the box, and the box wasn't there one day.

Really? How much longer after the move did the box move? I want to say she kept her out there for like a couple months. I don't know how many months, but it was some months. Did it ever smell? It did. Like you could smell it from the road. It was bad. Wow. And like every time somebody would come over and they were like, like they would say something about the smell, she would just say that it was like some fish that she had peeled or whatever or like something that she had cooked and it just went bad or something.

This new evidence from Hannah truly shatters what Pamela claimed in her episode. The fact that Hannah witnessed her mother move the body of Victoria Perez is backed up by court documents. This is a cold hard fact that Pamela denied in her episode. One thing that both Hannah and Pamela's accounts have in common is that the case did go cold.

The murder of Victoria Perez was shrouded in darkness in the state of Louisiana mainly because of Pamela's attempt to cover it up. While police couldn't discover the truth, Pamela carried on with her life. And her children followed suit, even though they knew what had really happened. Guilt can be a complex and powerful emotion, but it's hard to understand why Pamela didn't come forward to the police herself.

The magnitude of the crime she was involved in must have weighed heavily on her conscience, but it wasn't enough for her to step up and take the blame. In her episode, she points out how she was too afraid to tell anyone. So after you and Joker buried this body, as time went on, did you ever go back and look at where y'all buried her?

Just to check on things? No. Not one time? Did you worry about that you would help somebody bury a body out there? Did you worry about somebody discovering it? Yes, I did. What's that feel like? It feels horrible. It's like you want to go and tell someone, but then you're afraid to tell and it's just... did you tell any close friends?

No. One night I was dating someone and we had been together for a while and my kids had gone to stay the night at their grandma's for the weekend because like once a month they would get to go stay with their grandma from their dad's side and because I wanted them to know their grandparents and we had got drunk and I was like, I really need to tell someone this, and something happened and I don't, I'm afraid to tell someone this, but I really need to get it off of my chest, and I said somebody got hurt really bad and I need to tell someone, and I asked him the next day if he remembered, but he said he didn't remember me telling him.

So what did you tell him? Did you say that I came home to a dead body and I helped bury somebody? No, I just heard him that someone had got hurt really bad and he was just like, you know, we've had been drinking and I was like, "my friend, I know where she's at. I said, she's dead. And I said, and I don't know what to do."

And I said, "I need your help." So let me ask you this. I see a lot of cases like this where Somebody in your position with your story gets a really long sentence, which is basically yours. They didn't actually physically kill this person, but they were involved with cleaning up the body. The reason these people get charged so harshly is because not only did they help clean up the body, but they talked about the murder before it happened.

Did you ever text or talk to Joker about physically harming the victim at all, period? Never. Does the court say that you did that? No. But the court says that you went to a hospital, found the victim pregnant at a hospital and said, I have some clothes, some baby clothes for you. The victim then came to your house to get those baby clothes.

You killed the victim. Why are they saying that? I don't know. They said there was a hammer involved, but they have no hammer. So you said the victim was shot. Was there other injuries to the victim? Nope. Why is there a hammer involved? I don't know. Did the autopsy state that there was beating with a hammer or some kind of blunt drop?

No. Nope. Because I read hammer too, there's actually a gunshot. So you're basically saying that there's no other injuries to the victim besides a gunshot. You didn't see any kind of injuries whatsoever to her head? Any kind of trauma anywhere? Deny, deny, deny. This is all Pamela seems to do in her episode.

Unfortunately for Pamela, she couldn't conceal the truth for so long, and like most killers, eventually the police caught up with her. But unlike her mother, it was Hannah and her daughter. Sister Who Came Forward to the Authorities to reveal the full story of the disappearance of Victoria Perez. Did you ever go to school and tell anybody?

No, I only told one person. I told my friend Anna, but she didn't believe me. Like, she would tell me to this day. I told her, because that's the only person I knew her to tell. Like, I didn't know who else to tell because I was so scared that she would do something to us. And I told Anna, and Anna, to this day, she was like, I remember you telling me that, and I didn't believe you.

Yeah, that's hard to believe when you're a kid like that. You just think that, you know, that's, that's just, you're not supposed to have information like that, you know? Yeah, that is horrible. I hope I'm not bringing up old wounds, but that's just, you know, people want to know what's You know, Pamela put on a good podcast.

I honestly, under the surface, I thought that something might not have been quite right, but also I do know a lot of people go down with other people when they do something and then they just kind of don't say anything, so anything's possible, but you know, I think you explaining it as a child, seeing this, it's pretty big, it's pretty powerful, and you know, kudos to the prosecutors for putting everything together.

It must have been you that basically they questioned and you told everything? Well, first it was my sister, the girl Haley that she was talking about, the girl that she said was suicidal or whatever, that was my sister's friend, they was not lesbian lovers, I don't know why she would say that about a nine year old, but she had actually told her friend Haley what happened, and Haley's mom told Lindsay that she could come stay with them for a while because Pam was on drugs and it was just a bad living situation for us and so Lindsay went and told Pam that she wanted to go live with Haley and Pam slapped her and tried, like, pushed her down the stairs.

So, is it true that you actually told a, like a conservation agent or something like that? That was my sister and that's why Pam had, well Pam found that out because Haley's mom actually reached out to Pam to ask her about it, like if it was true. And she pushed my sister down the stairs. Wow. And then that's when my sister, like she went to school the next day and went and told everything and the cops came and picked us up from school.

Wow.

And then they got your mom and that was pretty much last time you saw your mom free? Yes. Hannah and her sister played a pivotal role in solving the case, but their involvement came at a tremendous cost. Witnessing their mother's crimes. This was a profoundly traumatic experience that no child should endure.

Despite the fear and turmoil they faced, these brave young individuals found the strength to come forward and share what they had seen and like then, that is what Hanna is doing today. According to news reports, their testimonies provided crucial evidence and shattered the silence that had shrouded the case for years.

After Pamela was arrested, they were put into state's care by Child Welfare Services. Pamela was put into county jail and her experience there had a profound impact on her decision making. The harsh conditions and limited resources created an atmosphere that weighed on her mental and physical well being and facing the daunting prospect of a first degree murder charge, she accepted a plea deal.

Let's listen to this news report from local station KALB about the outcome of Pamela's trial. While new at 10 tonight, the Oakdale woman accused of murdering a pregnant woman and her unborn baby back in 2011. Then burning and burying her body will likely spend the rest of her life in prison. 34 year old Pamela Fregia has pleaded guilty in the 33rd Judicial District Court of Overland to second degree murder and the death of then 22 year old Victoria Perez.

Brigida had been facing charges of first degree murder, first degree feticide, obstruction of justice, and accessory after the fact. Her trial, which had been continued back in February, was set to begin next month. Perez, who was "nearly 8 months pregnant, disappeared after a doctor's visit at Rapides Regional Medical Center.

The case remained cold until January 2015, when the Allen Parish Sheriff's Office received a tip that led them to a home on Matthew Street in Oakdale, where Perez's remains were found. After the break, Hannah talks about her relationship with her mother while she remains behind bars.

Do you still talk to your mother? She calls but I don't really talk to her like that because when I do talk to her it's like nothing changed like she's not self aware like she knows what she did but she tries to like put it in her mind and she didn't do it and she just acts like nothing ever happened and nothing like went wrong for her for us not to try to talk to her like we try to talk to her you But it's always like, "Oh, I'm with this person, let me tell you about my boyfriend, stuff like that," instead of asking, like, how we been, and, you know, we got kids now, like, how have they been?

Yeah, well, some people got problems, you know, try not to hold on to hate for her, she probably actually loves you, just people are different, you know.. I'm sorry you had to go through all that though. That's, that's just a crazy event for, for a young child to see. Yeah. As, do you want to add anything else?

I just want to say on behalf of myself and my sister and my brother that I'm sorry for what my mom did to cause them any pain because I know, like, that's rough, like, looking at it, like, how she just, I just wish she would just come forward and tell the truth instead of just keep lying about it. I just wish she would just tell the truth about it and it would probably just help her heart even more.

I just wish she would just tell the truth. I think it would too, and the fact that she thinks she's getting out, I mean, she got life without, right? Yeah, she got life without. And I'll tell you that, you know, a lot of inmates really do have hope because that's all they have to, if you give up hope, you go crazy.

So they all think that they're getting out, but the reality is 99 percent of them are not. The ones that are got life without. I don't know why she told me she's so, you know, sure she's getting out, but she's not. Yeah, she thinks that she's getting out. She told us that she was getting out in 2026. And I was like, "I thought you had life without parole."

And then she was like, "yeah, but they gave me a clemency date or something." And I was like, "oh, okay." Yeah. That's, that's not how that works. Knowing that your mother killed someone in the woods. So gosh, man, this is so intense. That's crazy. That must have been scary for a 10 year old girl. It was. Have you seen a therapist since?

We was going to therapy, and we, we went to like three different therapists, and they, we was on medicine and stuff. And gave us, like, PTSD and some other stuff. Did your sister have any kind of, you know, any kind of bad effects, you know, mentally from this? How did you handle this? I mean, are you, how do you cope with it?

I usually talk to my husband about it, or I just don't, I don't really try to think about it as much, but like, when I saw the podcast, it's just been making me think about it a lot lately. And I don't want to, you know, keep thinking about it because I know in my heart that I forgive Pam for what she did.

She just need to come forward with the truth and, you know, apologize to the people, the Victoria's family. As we conclude this episode, it becomes evident that the accounts from Pamela and Hannah diverge significantly. Hannah's vivid and traumatic recollections paint a starkly different picture from Pamela's version of events.

Through these differences, we must remember that Hannah was only a child when she witnessed these horrifying acts, and the impact on her has been profound and long lasting. Pamela's actions have not only scarred Hannah emotionally, but also fundamentally changed their relationship. Hannah struggles to maintain any form of meaningful connection with her mother, as Pamela's refusal to acknowledge the full extent of her actions continues to create a rift between them.

This denial and lack of self awareness from Pamela have only deepened the wounds, making reconciliation difficult, if not impossible. Pamela also has to confront the fact that Victoria Perez's loved ones have endured immeasurable pain. Not only is this guilt that Pamela will have to live with while she lives out the rest of her time behind bars, but also that which Hannah herself has to live with. To close this chapter, we leave the final word to Hannah who wishes to convey a heartfelt message to the family of Victoria Perez.

So, yeah, I'm sure that you know, the victim's family knows that you, y'all are not involved with that, and that's some pretty deep stuff.

I'm glad you opened up about that. I'm also really glad that you reached out to me because I definitely like to get the truth and I, I believe you. So is it, if it's okay with you, if I have your permission to put this on the podcast? Yeah, you can. I also wanted to say, I know it was, well, you know, like I know it was hard for them.

I know it was hard on them because they was, you know, looking for their loved one. And I just wish my mom, you know, I wish she would have just came forward sooner so that they could have had justice for their family member. Whenever she was missing, did they ever come around the house that the authorities asking about her?

No, they did not, but I do remember my mom, she, her sister, like I didn't know it was her sister, but apparently it was her sister. Her sister was having a garage sale, and Pam went to the garage sale knowing that she killed the lady's sister. And the lady was handing out flyers, like I remember this, she was handing out flyers looking for her sister.

Pam grabbed one, we was going down the road, and pam threw it out the window. Wow. That's, that's so sad. I'm, I'm sure you want better for her, but maybe in the in time she'll turn around and say she's sorry. I don't know. Do you think that'll happen? I don't think it'll happen because she's still like, after all these years, she's still blaming it on somebody called Joker and I don't know, there's nobody called the Joker, like, that's ever been around us.

Yeah. And nobody's there besides her. Well, Hannah, I appreciate you reaching out to me and also opening up. I know that's not difficult. It's probably kind of opened up old wounds, but I really do appreciate it. And now people can hear what really happened. So thanks again. Okay. Okay, thank you.

On the next episode of Voices of a Killer:

I grew up a hunter, so I've killed multiple animals in my life, and my grandpa was a funeral home, so I've seen dead bodies and stuff like that before, so I was callous to the fact of the whole reason why I killed her is because I wanted her truck. How many times do you think you stabbed her in the head?

The forensics said that after the initial stabbing it was seven more times. Then after I got done doing that I stood up and I stomped her in the face one time. What's causing you to do all this? Is it the drugs? I was experiencing extreme rage because I had just realized that I had just killed somebody.

And that I was probably in very, very, very deep trouble. And that I had no way to get out of it. And that I was essentially screwed. I would like to thank Hannah for sharing her story with us today. Her ability to be open and honest is what makes this podcast so special. That's a wrap on this episode of Voices of a Killer, a big shout out to Sonic Futures who handled the production, audio editing, music licensing, and promotion of this podcast.

If you want to hear more episodes like this one, make sure to visit our website at voicesofakiller.com. There you can find previous episodes, transcripts, and additional information about the podcast. Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Your feedback helps us improve and reach new listeners. Thank you for your support, and we can't wait to share more stories with you in the future. Thank you for tuning in. I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer.