Ep 6 | Isis Schauer Transcript

Voices of a Killer Podcast: Ep 6 | Isis Schauer Transcript

Before we begin this podcast, please be advised that the following episode contains language that some listeners may find offensive and inappropriate. The opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not reflect the views of the podcast Producers, listener discretion is advised.

This person's body's probably still warm and you show up. Tell me what happened whenever you walked in there. What would you do in a holding cell when your water broke? Okay. They wouldn't take you to the hospital. They would rather let you and your baby die. Did they charge you with a hate crime cuz it was a transgender?

Yes. I'm not a judgmental person. Didn't you kill this person or help kill this person? Why should the public believe your story? You can ask my family Kay. I have never been in any trouble, nothing whatsoever. You are now listening to the podcast Voices of a Killer. I'm bringing you the stories from the perspective of the people that have taken the life of another human and their current situation thereafter in prison.

You will see that although these are the folks that we have been programmed to hate, they all have something in common. They are all humans like us that admit that they made a mistake. Will you forgive them or will you condemn them? They're currently serving time for their murders, and they give us an inside glimpse of what took place when they killed and their feelings on the matter now. Here are the voices of those who have killed.

On this episode of Voices of a Killer, we talked to Isis Schauer, one of the three convicted suspects in the gruesome murder of Ally Steinfeld, a transgender team from Missouri. We will try to discover the reasons behind this heart-wrenching case that shocked the nation. Go beyond the headlines and explore the mind and experiences of Isis.

What led to her alleged involvement? What were the circumstances surrounding that fateful day? And perhaps most importantly, what truths will be revealed as we delve into the depths of this tragic tale. So prepare yourself for an intense conversation that will challenge your understanding of the human psyche and the boundaries of human behavior.

How in an increasingly accepting world, such as senseless, violent crime was committed, and how the effects of it sent shockwaves around the world. On this episode of Voices of a Killer. How was your childhood Isis? Did you feel like you had a normal childhood? I was very sheltered. Like I didn't do what like normal kids did.

I didn't go to sleepover, stuff like that, but my parents like follow my own path. How were you sheltered? Just because you couldn't go sleepover at friend's houses? No, like most kids could go hang out with their friends or stuff like that, but my parents would keep me away from that stuff, keep me away from church, keep me away from friends.

The only people that I would actually hang out with were my family members. Yeah. How was your time in high school and or junior high even? Did you have lots of friends or did you feel like you were a loner, or how was that for you? I felt like I was a loner. I was a very shy person to begin with, so I didn't have that many friends to begin with.

So it's just, I was okay with it. Cause I didn't like to be like around a whole bunch of people. How did you know your co-defendants? Andrew and what's the other co-defendant's name? Brianna. Brianna? Yes. Were you best friends with them? Andrew is my ex-fiance. Was he your fiance at the time of the crime? Yeah.

Okay. And then Brianna is my cousin. Before I got the recording started, you said something about Andrew being bisexual. Did I not hear that? Yeah. So explain that to me. Andrew, when we started dating, he told me that he was bisexual and he asked me if I had a problem with people that were bisexual and I said, no, because I'm bisexual.

And. I don't know if Ally tried to get with him or something like that, but you know that I do not know for real. I do not know that. The victim in this case, Ally Steinfeld, who was 17 at the time, shared a residence with Isis Schauer, or then fiance, Andrew Vrba, and her cousin Brianna Calderas. As we explore their shared living situation, it becomes clear that the dynamics within their residence played a crucial role in this tragic tale. One thing that you'll hear throughout this episode is Ally being referred to as Joseph or Joey, the name she used prior to transitioning. Transgender identity is a central theme in this case, and we have to confront the reality that intolerance and hatred towards trans people can lead to unfathomable acts of violence.

Living as a transgender individual can be an arduous journey as one navigates not only the challenges of self-acceptance, but also the societal prejudices and stigmas that persist. Ally, whose true gender identity was met with love and support from her family sought to find that same understanding within her chosen family in the walls of this home, but it all ended in a senseless and violent act in September of 2017.

What was your relationship with Ally? Ally was living with me, my grandma, my ex-fiance, and her girlfriend at the time. Wow. So the victim actually lived with you? Yeah. And did she transition to a girl yet or was she still Joseph Steinfeld? Ally was still Joseph. Okay. At the time, and I'm assuming, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that during the process of you living with Ally, that, or Joseph at the time, he decided that he was gonna transition to a female and call himself Ally.

She decided beforehand, that Ally didn't feel comfortable in Ally's body. Okay. So before she started living with us she decided she wanted to transfer into, and was she telling you and everybody else this, or was it just secrets between you and her, or did everybody know? Only a few people knew. From my understanding, only a few people knew about it.

Were people supportive of her or were a lot of people like coming down on her? Most of her family was supportive. I think other people at the time, yeah, they were supportive. You and Ally were friends, weren't you? Yeah. Can you tell me about a time that you had with Ally that was positive? Me, Samantha, which was one of Ally's exes.

We would all like dress up, do goofy pictures and stuff like that. We actually got our hair all pink one time and we would take goofy pictures, just post them everywhere, on Facebook, Twitter, everywhere. It was a good time. That was fine. What was your reaction when you found out that he wanted to transition to a girl?

I was okay with it cause. I am not a judgmental person. I'm not a judgemental person. Didn't you kill this person or help kill this person? No, I did not. I was at the hospital at the time of the crime. They just didn't get the evidence showing that I was at the hospital at the time of the. Andrew Vrba is accused of killing 17 year old Ally Steinfeld nearly three years ago.

Linda Simmons has been in the courtroom all day and joins us live with the first day of testimony. Linda? Yeah. This is a case out of Texas County, Missouri. The victim at the time, 17 year old Joseph or Ally Steinfeld. This morning, the prosecution told the court that Andrew Vrba stabbed Ally Steinfeld twice, burned her remains, then lied about why he did it.

This audio from a local TV station, KY3, about the trial of Andrew in 2020 gives us an insight into just how confusing the situation was. Andrew did admit to the murders, but then subsequently lied about crucial details in the case leading to an extended investigation and drawn out court procedure.

This had me thinking, was Andrew the only one involved in the murder? What concrete evidence was there to support Isis's alibi that she was at the hospital. Could Brianna have corroborated Isis's claim? Why wasn't there security camera footage of Isis at the hospital presented at her trial. So what were you doing at the hospital whenever Ally was murdered?

I was sitting with my cousin Brianna Calderas. She's not in prison anymore. Okay. She's out on the street somewhere. I don't know where. Probably changed her last name probably. I don't know. So who do they think is actually the one that stabbed Ally? Do they think it's Andrew or do they think it's you? I honestly don't know what they think.

I had a separate trial because I took a plea bargain. Would you plead down to? 20 years murder in second degree and abandonment of a corpse. Okay. So you took a plea deal accepting second degree murder, but you're saying you didn't murder anybody. Yes. Why would you plea down to that? Okay. I was pregnant at the time.

My county didn't do s*** for me. So what would you do in a holding cell when your water broke? Okay. They wouldn't take you to the hospital. They would rather let you and your baby die instead of taking you to the hospital, the reason why I took a plea deal is because I was tired of my county treating me like s*** like dirt.

Okay. I'd rather come here fight my case instead of sit there and do nothing. You know my case was rescheduled in three months, about 50 million f***ing times. What do the police think that you did? What is your role? As far as they're concerned? They think that I helped plan it out and that I killed her. Why would they think all that when you're saying that's all false?

Because my public defender at the time didn't get any evidence to prove that I wasn't there, that I didn't do any of it. So they have none of those evidence. Listen, I think you're really regretful about what happens. I don't think you're a killer. So there's no camera footage. You mean your lawyer did not think about pulling the camera footage at you at the hospital?

I told him to it multiple times. Obviously they didn't do that. Because Paul McMahon is truthful in everything he does. Every public defender is always truthful in what they do. Yeah. Yeah. They get paid by the state. Okay. You really think public defenders are truthful? No. That's a f***ing lie. Talk to anybody that has been to Texas County Jail,

Anybody. Okay. Do they treat you right? Do they give you proper stuff that you need? Okay. Like for real, does any of the people that have been in Texas County jail? I'd rather be in prison, get my time started, ok, then sit in Texas County, being treated like s***. The people in prison, the officers in prison treat you better than Texas County. So is Andrew the one that stabbed her? Yes. Does he deny it? No, he probably won't deny it cause of the simple fact he was the only one there that could commit the crime. So I talked to him Sunday. What do you think he's gonna tell me happened?

How about I'll call you on Monday and you tell me exactly what he tells you. I'll play it back for you too. All right. Isis alleges that her public defender, Paul McMahon, was ill prepared for the trial, failing to gather crucial evidence that could have placed her at the hospital during the time of Ally's murder. To make matters even more challenging, Isis found herself in an incredibly vulnerable situation. She was not only facing a murder charge, but she was also pregnant at the time the authorities placed her in county jail. A setting notorious for its harsh conditions and limited access to resources and support.

It is essential to understand that county jail in many ways can be more punitive than prison. Prosecutors often use the tactic of keeping defendants in jail pretrial, knowing that the conditions and isolation can impact their mental and physical wellbeing. Making it increasingly difficult to mount a strong defense.

This practice has become a focal point of discussions among advocates for criminal justice reform. Isis's case sheds light on the urgent need for reform within the criminal justice system, particularly regarding the treatment of defendants before they are convicted. It raises important questions about the fairness and effectiveness of our current practices where individuals facing charges are subjected to harsh conditions and limited access to legal representation.

The psychological effect of jail can break someone down. They can either accept a plea deal or confess to a crime they didn't commit. In many cases, jail is how many people that are innocent go to prison for a long time. Nevertheless, I knew there was one person I could question that would know more about Isis's situation. Because I talked to her last week and she's pretty upset.

She said that she had nothing to do with it and nah, she's innocent. That and more after the break.

So I got Andrew Vrba here. Did you plead guilty or were you found guilty of murder? Found guilty. Okay. So what sentence did you get life without? So basically, as far as what's going on right now, you're gonna die in prison? Uh, possibly, yeah. How does that make you feel? I don't know. So I understand that whenever the crime happened, you were actually engaged to get married?

Yep. Do you still speak to Isis, your ex-fiance? Nope. Would you like to speak to her? As of now, not really. How come you guys don't have a relationship anymore? Just doesn't make any sense to have one. Do you ever get any hate mail? No, not that I know of. Do you have support in there, like from the outside?

Do your parents reach out to you? Family, friends? Yep. Folks? Yeah. Is this pretty hard on them? Yeah. Yeah, I'd imagine it is. So what I wanna know, Andrew, is how old are you right now? 24. And how old were you at the time of the crime? 18. And are you appealing your crime? I. Yeah. On what grounds? Ineffective assistance to counsel or just, or what is it?

Can't really talk about it. Okay. But you know how it is. Sure. And that's perfectly fine. Are you still saying that you've not done anything? You're innocent? I'm just trying to get some time back. Yeah, but you pled not guilty. Are you still claiming that you didn't do anything in taking part in the murder of this transgender team?

Did you hear that? Yeah, I heard that. Are you still claiming that you took no part in that? Can't really talk about that. Okay. So let me ask you a question. Isis says that she was not there at the time of the murder. Was she around or was she not there? She wasn't there. So really she's been locked up. She said that she was at the hospital at the time and came 30 minutes after the murder.

And the murder had already happened, so she actually had nothing to do with it yet. She's in prison for it now. Yeah. f***ed up. Because I talked to her last week and she's pretty upset. She said that she had nothing to do with it and, but she-. Nah, she's innocent. Really? Why would they find her guilty of that?

Because the county we came out of was corrupt. All you gotta do is look at the news articles on their former sheriff. Yeah. Multiple felony counts, wrongful convictions, tampering with evidence, tampering with a court document, all that sorts of s***. Right? So the victim, Ally Steinfeld, who was, grew up as a Joey, a man, and decided to transition into a female, did that bother you? Do you not like that scenario? For somebody to be able to-. Never knew about it. Never knew that she was transitioning from guy to girl. But didn't you live with her? Yeah. So how did you not know she was transitioning if you lived with her? Never did. Okay. Do you know who killed Ally Steinfeld? No.

Why do they think you stabbed her Andrew? Why did they think you stabbed Ally Steinfeld? That's what they think. I know, but I'm asking why. Why would they think that you did it if you didn't do it? I dunno. Who else was around that area besides you and your fiance Isis? Can't really talk about it. Okay. Do you have an attorney on the on, on your appeal right now?

Yeah. Isis's ex-fiance, Andrew is for the most part, very closed off about this tragic event, mainly because he has an ongoing appeal for his sentence. His claim about the county being corrupt was based upon a case in 2021 where former Texas County Sheriff James Sigman received three years supervised probation and a fine for forging an employee's time card in 2018. Sigman was also charged with several other allegations including assault, robbery, and misuse of official information by a public servant. However, the link between that case, and this is tenuous at best, while Sigman was the sheriff for this case, there is no proof that there was any wrongdoing on his part.

And Andrew's claim is speculative. Nonetheless. One thing that is clear is that he knows that Isis was not involved directly in the killing of Ally. I played this to Isis to let her know the good news. So I just played you Andrew, your ex-fiancee saying that he thinks you're innocent. How does that make you feel?

You know, that kinda makes me feel happy. I was surprised to hear him say that. You're completely innocent and you did not do anything. I was trying to tell you that, and I'm not trying to bring up any feelings for you, but Andrew doesn't have any use for you. You know, I say, how? How come y'all don't talk anymore?

And he says there's no point to it. And so it's not like he's in love with you trying to defend you. And what I'm saying is it comes from an organic place. It comes from, you know, him just telling the truth. Yeah.

Unfortunately, Andrew wasn't willing to talk to me any further, but it was good to hear more evidence that supported Isis. It is clear that there was evidence missing from her trial which painted a blurry picture for the judge. What is also blurry is what happened on the day of the murder. Although Andrew currently does not admit to the murder, there was evidence presented during Andrew's trial where he not only confessed to the brutal killing, but provided reasons as to why he murdered Ally.

This news report from KY3 gives us more details about that. The defense claims it was not premeditated, but happened as Steinfeld got drunk and made threats about Vrba's family. The defense also says that Steinfeld's new girlfriend and Vrba's co-defendant, Brianna Calders, had told Vrba that Steinfeld sexually assaulted her.

Steinfeld's oldest sister and father both took the stand testifying about her disappearance. That sister also testified that when she met the new girlfriend Brianna for the first time, she sensed something was wrong with their relationship. This afternoon, the court listened to a nearly two hour interview with Texas County investigators.

In that video, Andrew Vrba almost immediately confessed to killing Steinfeld. He told investigators, That Steinfeld was swinging a knife at him before Vrba grabbed it and stabbed her twice in the stomach. With repeated questioning though, he changed his story saying he didn't grab the knife while it was in Steinfeld's hand, but picked it up off the counter.

I'm just gonna come forth and say I had no choice. I killed him. Where's he at? I buried him in the backyard. What happened? He threatened to kill my baby, grandmother, her grandmother, Isis' grandmother, uh, Brianna's children, and he r***d Brianna in front of me where she went to the hospital. She, she was, remember what her exact words were.

She said something between the lines of make it painless and quick. So that audio at the end there is a little unclear, but it's taken directly from the police questioning after Andrew's arrest. In it, he says, I had no choice. I killed him. Stating that he, by this, he means ally threatened to kill my baby. Brianna was pregnant at the time and then.

He r***d Brianna in front of me. The detective then says when she, Brianna went to the hospital, she asked you to kill him. Do you remember what her exact words were? And Andrew's response is something between the lines of, make it painless and quick. The day of the crime. Brianna Calderas she text me from work and or she was working at nursing home. She said that she was hemorrhaging and that Joey had r***d her, and I'm pretty sure that's what Andrew off Andrew has a protective streak him. So I'm pretty sure when Briana texted Andrew or Ally off of like sending a message to Ally or something, or when Ally got drunk, he said that he or Brianna or something like that.

Pretty sure it was to Andrew, but he said it and then Andrew got mad and that's probably what happened. That's probably why the whole thing went down. Because Brianna got r***d? Yes. Okay. Were you there after the fact? Yeah, I was. How long after this person's life was taken were you there? Maybe 30 minutes afterwards.

This person's body's probably still warm, and you show up. Tell me what happened whenever you walked in there. I saw the blood. I screamed ran outside, started puking, and then I went back inside, asked Andrew what happened. He wouldn't tell me. And I saw Ally's face with a bunch of duct tape on it. Her eyes gouged out, stab wounds everywhere.

Was she for sure dead at the time or was she still struggling to stay alive? No, she was dead at the time. When you saw Ally like that, did she have blood in her crotch area? Yeah. Was it just one stab wound? No. It was multiple? Yeah. Did you ever ask Andrew why there? No, because at the time I wasn't thinking to ask questions.

Where else was she stabbed? In the stomach or chest? Stomach. Chest. Her eyes were So you weren't disgusted by this? I was completely disgusted. That's why I ran back outside the back door and started puking my guts out. I was also six months pregnant at the time. Why did you not call the police like right away?

Because they told me not to. Why didn't you just run outta the house? Like what right and wrong is like, let me get the f*** outta here. You just showed up, so just leave right now. Okay. Okay. Her house was in the middle of nowhere. Brianna's house was in the middle of nowhere. And I tried to get outta there, but they kept blocking me from the doors.

What is Andrew doing at this time? What is his demeanor? He's like freaking out and trying to like think of how he could hide the body, but he was mostly like freaking out. What have I done? Tell me what happened. How did they move the body? Brianna and Andrew. They put her body in a sleeping bag that she was laying on, and they moved it onto a ladder type thing and they moved it around the back and they disposed of the body by burning it. And what did you do while they burned the body?

I was cleaning up the rug. When this body was being moved, which I know Andrew helped move in the body. Was he doing anything else disrespectful to the body on the way to burning it and doing all that? Or was it just shipping it from one place to the other? Shifting it from one place to the other? When did y'all put the body where it was gonna be burned?

Did y'all say anything to the body? Did you say anything to each other? I asked what were gonna do and they said, pretend it was just a normal day, like we were just gonna go on with our lives like it never happened. I'm sure that was hard to do. Yeah, it was. It was very hard to do. What did y'all do with the body after you burned it?

Did you just leave it right there in the burn pile? Yeah. Did y'all ever go back and look at it? I did not. I did not. No. Did Andrew and them go back? I don't know if they did or not, but I did not. How did you help clean up the body? What did you do? Chemicals. Basically. You didn't help pick up the body and put it in the sleeping bag?

No. After they removed the body that you cleaned up the area underneath the body. Yeah. Was there a lot of blood? Yeah. Did you have any blood on you? On my hands because I was cleaning up the carpet. So at this point you weren't involved in killing them, but you now involved yourself in basically cleaning up and helping them with the murder scene.

Were you not disgusted doing that and then where you're not thinking to yourself, this is not right, there's a human being that just got killed? I was disgusted, very disgusted. And I shouldn't have done that. I shouldn't have done anything. And I realize my mistake, I do. I realize them, and if I could take Ally's place, I would.

I really would. Why would you involve yourself like this, Isis? Because how I was raised up you're supposed to be loyal to your family. But you wouldn't be sitting in prison right now had you said, you know what? I understand loyalty and family, but an innocent person has just been killed. This wasn't self-defense.

It was literally just killed for no reason. I'm just trying to figure out why you didn't make the right choice. I honestly don't know. I don't know.

After the break, we dig deeper into the reason for the tragic death of Ally Steinfeld.

So it was just him and the victim at the house at the time of the murder, and that's it. Nobody else? Yeah. Why would he flip like that and kill that girl? I don't know. But you're telling me this. This is your fiance that lived with the victim. And he's never said, I don't like this person, or This person's bothering me, or I want to kick this person out, or I can't live with this person anymore.

Nothing. You're telling me that you just came home to a murder person by your fiance? Yes. What the f***? I just don't get it exactly what I was thinking. How long after you discovered the body where you talked to by the police? A couple weeks after. And during that couple weeks, what was your thought process like?

Were you thinking We've gotten away with this? Should be okay. Or did you feel like you were watching your back the entire time? Watching my back the entire time and I really wanted to go to the police. I did multiple times. I wanted to tell my mom I wanted to have her take me to the police station, like.

A lot of times, but I couldn't risk the safety of my family. Did you have any fear of Andrew killing you because you knew about the killing? Yes. What was his demeanor like that entire time? Was he freaked out and scared too the police were coming? Um, kind of. Were y'all hanging out together after the murder?

Yeah. Did y'all discuss what happened? Not really. No. You never said, why the f*** did you do that? No. I can't believe that you did not get back in your car and drive as far away as possible once you saw a dead body, but you decided to clean it up. I just think there's got to be something. This guy just literally turned on a switch.

I'm killing this person. That's what I'm doing. I'm just gonna, I mean, that's scary. He should be in prison for the rest of his life without parole. If that's something that's real. If he like got mad about something, like I said about maybe you thought somebody was stealing or something, that there was some kind of like mechanism, some motive, then we could say, okay, he got really pissed and he made a bad decision.

But literally with the information I'm getting is he just turned on a switch and killed somebody. And then what's the explanation Isis, do you know? I do not know. I really dunno. There seems to be no logical reason for the murder of Ally Steinfeld. Senseless. Yes. Ruthless. Yes. Brutal. Yes. Warranted. Not with the evidence that has been put before us.

We also have to question the immutable fact that Ally's transgender identity might have played in this murder. It is crucial to approach these details with the utmost care and sensitivity, recognizing the immense pain and trauma inflicted upon Ally and the broader transgender community. As news of Ally's murder spread, a wave of outrage reverberated throughout the transgender community and beyond. Despite Andrew's denial that he was motivated by this fact, you can't help but wonder why he murdered Ally in such a way. Stabbing the genitalia can be seen as an attack on Ally's identity. Aimed at erasing her sense of self and reinforcing harmful stereotypes.

Gouging out her eyes is an act of profound brutality, denying her the ability to see and be seen stripping of her, of her agency and humanity. I wanted to know if Isis was aware of this and whether or not she was withholding more information. So here's what I wanna know. You come into the house, you see somebody that you've known for quite some time dead on the floor in the living room.

Yeah. You freak out and you can't believe what just happened. Is Ally at this point, is she dressed like a female? No. She's dressed like a boy at this point. Yes. And she wanted to transition at this point. She was already telling people, Hey, I don't wanna be called Joey. I'm Ally. I'm transitioning to a woman at this point in time when she was killed.

Why is she looking like a boy? I do not now. Okay. So is it possible though, all y'all live in the same house? He's bisexual Ally's trans, that he had some kind of sexual encounter with Ally and then regretted it?

Maybe cause Ally was turning into a female. Ally liked females already, so that could have been possible. And Ally also liked males as well. So honestly, I don't really think you were there. I think you probably didn't think somebody was actually gonna die. And y'all probably talk some s***. And then somebody ended up dying and then you, your loyalty kicked in.

You helped them clean up, and then you got scared and lied. But what I want you to do is just imagine like how powerful that is to use a knife and not only stab somebody, but stab 'em hard enough where that blade goes in 'em, and then also stab 'em in the genitals. That's so personal. Something is like really deep and strong in this situation where that's just not what you do unless you're really f***ing out there.

Or something weird's going on. Yeah. Where you stab somebody in the genitals. So Isis, I feel like you know that something happened. I'm not saying you're involved. Andrew didn't really wanna talk to me much. It was very much yes, no answers and I don't wanna talk about that replies and which I understand. I, if I was in his shoes, I probably wouldn't talk to me either.

But I'm not the cops. I'm not here to expose people. I'm just patronize and badger and stuff like that. I may do a little bit of that, but not because I'm trying to get you in trouble just because it's this interesting story, but, Yeah. The bad thing is, is we live in a world right now where we're trying to get the world to understand that if you want to transition into something, then you should be able to, it's your right.

So everybody probably out there thinks that this transgender teen was killed just for the simple fact that they were transitioning from male to female. But do you think that's accurate of this person not wanting to transition do you think they'd ever got killed? I don't know. I really don't. I don't know.

If you had to guess what his motivation was to kill Ally, what would it be? Do you think? It's cuz she was transgender.

I could not give you that answer. I really couldn't. So now Isis, can we conclude that it's a pretty good possibility that Andrew was mad maybe at Ally because he had a sexual encounter with her, or you think it was solely because he believed that Ally r***d Calderas. Most likely to r*** her. Do you think that Ally was capable of raping Calderas?

Did she have that kind of nature or do you think maybe that they had sex and maybe hurt Calderas and after that she cried r***? Is that possible? Yeah. Which scenario would you choose? I would probably choose the one where they had sexual encounters and she screamed r***. Because my cousin Calderas has been known to do that.

Really? Yeah, she has. Did you get to watch Ally deny doing that? Did you see that encounter? No. Isis's reasons to support the r*** accusations were also echoed by the outcome of both her trial and Andrew's trial, where in both instances, the hate crime charges were dropped. This caused even more outrage within the trans community and beyond the impact rippled far further than the confines of a single tragedy.

Serving as a stark reminder of the transphobia that persists in society and the urgent need to confront and eradicate it. So what happened to Isis's cousin Brianna Calderas? She was with Isis at the hospital at the time of the murder, and unlike Isis, she helped Andrew move Ally's body, yet the first degree murder charge was dropped against her and she only received eight years and is currently free.

So this begs the question, why did Isis receive a greater sentence for arguably less involvement in the murder? What's the other girl's name? Brianna. Brianna Calderas. She was originally with you? At the hospital, yes. So did they not corroborate your story and say, yes, Isis was with me at the time of the murder?

I don't know. I haven't talked to her about the case at all, and I haven't talked to her ever since. Why didn't she talk to you anymore? I haven't talked to her ever since we got locked up, and honestly, I don't give a flying f*** and I don't wanna talk to her. So you and this girl that helped pick up the body with Andrew, were at a hospital together, Andrew kills this teenage transgender girl, you and Brianna get back from the hospital. She helps pick up the body and move it. You help clean up you, you take the second degree murder charge. 20 years. And what does she do? Plead not guilty. I don't know. I wasn't there at her. I mean, y'all have the exact same scenario. If anything, she did a little bit more cuz she actually picked up the body.

You cleaned up the mess of the body. But she actually helped pick up the body. She's out of prison right now and you got 11 more years. You've been there for six years. This does not make f***ing sense to me. Why did she get lesser charges? I don't know. That's weird that she is outta prison right now and you have 20 years.

Yep. And Andrew has life without parole. He will die in prison. Yep. I know. Trust me. I know. Why should the public believe your story? Why should the public believe my story? You can ask my family, okay?

I have never been in any trouble, nothing whatsoever. Okay? Do you feel like the police forced you into a plea deal? No. I feel like my public defender, Paul McMahon at the time forced me into it. So he went to you probably and said, Hey, listen, I legally have to tell you the offer that the prosecutors have, and what they're wanting to do is say you take second degree murder.

For 20 years. Do you accept this offer or not? Is that how it went? Something like that. Okay. Do you feel like he tried to persuade you like, this is what you need to do, you're gonna get the death penalty or anything like that? Yeah. That he mentioned death penalty. That's exactly what he said. He said that I would get the death penalty if I didn't take this plea deal.

I figured that because it's a pretty heinous crime. And did they charge you with a hate crime because it was a transgender? Yes. And when you took the plea deal, the hate crime went away. No. You do have an appeal going. Yeah, I do. And uh, what exactly are you appealing? Ineffective assistance of counsel.

Yeah. So in the event that you weren't actually at the residence, whenever the murder took place, what I'm wondering is because I'm not an attorney and I haven't looked at the laws and how they all work, but sometimes. In our heads, we think this is what happened, so I don't think I should get this. And I'm wondering if way the law is written that even though you weren't there for the murder, maybe there was some events that took place before the murder and the fact that you showed up shortly thereafter and then helped cleaned up the body.

Do you think that comes into play? Is there something that I don't know of? I don't know. I haven't really looked at the, the law. Well, here's which you should be doing. There's a law library in every jail in prison across the country, because they have to have one by law. Yeah. I'm a little bit surprised with all the time that you got that you don't sit in that law library and try to figure out why you're in there and how you can get outta there if you really, obviously you're not completely innocent.

Because you messed with a dead body and you helped cover it up. But also if it's true what you're saying, that you weren't there when somebody got stabbed to death, then you probably don't deserve the time that you got. The laws we have are sometimes strange and prosecutors can find a way to convict you by using the language of the law.

Whatever the truth of the situation, Isis feels like she has been failed by the justice system, and in particular, her public defender at the time. Isis filed a motion shortly after her sentencing stating that her public defender, Paul McMahon, did not discuss probable cause evidence or preliminary hearing with her.

She also said that her plea was not knowledgeable or voluntary, let down by poor conditions in the Texas County Jail. Or access to legal aid is limited and compiled with the stress of being pregnant. There is a lot of evidence to support what Isis claims. Nevertheless, when the judge's gavel comes down, the sentence that these suspects have received are very real.

For Brianna, eight years, for Isis, 20 years, and for Andrew life without parole. This audio from Andrew's sentencing gives us more insight into how his trial went and further events that occurred before the murder. Andrew Vrba, case number 17, TCR oh six 14 dash one. The victim was 17 and the defendant was 18 at the time of the murder.

Throughout the trial, the defense is maintained that the murder was the reaction of a sudden passion or other actions and threatening statements made by the victim or the defendant, his girlfriend and their unborn child. The state argues that those facts are untrue and made up by the defendant. The state argues that the defendant planned the murder with other people who has pled already plead guilty to various crimes involved with this murder.

The state presented basically the evidence of the defendant's state. The defendant has spoken to the victim's girlfriend the week of the murder about her being r***d by the victim. The defendant never confronted the victim about this allegation. The defendant attempted once before the actual murder to harm the victim by crushing up pills and placing them in alcohol for the victim to consume.

The victim did not end up drinking the beverage provided by the defendant. The defendant then did an internet search on having to kill someone quick and continuously, and also help with the planning of the burning of the victim's body after the murder. As soon as the murder was completed and the victim was deceased, the defendant sent a text message to the victim's girlfriend to tell her that it was done, meaning the death of the victim.

The defendant claims that the victim picked up a knife off the counter and came at him trying to stab him as was claimed in his first interview. The defendant said that he had turned the victim's arm and knife into the victim and stabbed him. By the third interview, the defendant had conceded that the victim had picked up a knife, but that he had talked him into putting a knife down on the counter, and the victim had turned his back to the defendant.

The defendant then picked up a knife and stabbed the back of the victim. Then the defendant stabbed the victim in the stomach. Then he held the victim while he finished dying. The defendant never called for emergency services. Once again in this case the issue is if the actions of the defendant were with, uh, deliberation or sudden passion.

There was no evidence in this trial that this murder was caused by issues involving the victim being transgendered. There was also no evidence that the victim was tortured or mutilated by the defendant at any time in this case. The only evidence of the victim threatening anyone was from the defendant.

Once the victim laid the knife down and turned to walk away, that threat would've been over if you believed such evidence. The defendant engaged in several actions prior to the day of the murder and the day of the murder. To show premeditation, the defendant talked with the victim's girlfriend. The defendant tried to use pills and alcohol on the victim, and the defendant looked up on the internet how to make death quick and painless.

The internet search indicates that the defendant had the mental capacity to premeditate and reflect on his actions. The court does find the defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in count one to the class, a felony of murder in the first degree, and in count two. The felony of harmed criminal action, and both of those are found guilty.

Found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. So you've been in prison for, what, six years now? Yep. Gone on seven. And what'd you get? 20 years. And you're gonna do 85, 20 years? 85%, 85%. Let's do some math here. I'm sure you've done it a million times, but 20 times 85% is 17 years. It's 17 years. And you've been in there how long?

Six years. Yep. Minus six. Now we got 11. So you got a decade left in there. How old are you right now? I'm 23. How old are you gonna be when you get outta prison? Isis? In my thirties. Really? Thirties is your prime. You got a whole life ahead of you, but how does that make you feel knowing that you're gonna spend so long in prison like it hurts?

It hurts being accused of something that I didn't do, and then yet I wanna make it right, but I can't. If you could talk to the person that had the power to let you outta prison, what would you tell them? A lot of things, like they've changed so much that I've learned, but I feel like I should do a couple more years.

Because I still have time that I need to grow, if that makes any sense. I've learned a lot from these people in here, from other people in here. I have. Would you learn from them? A lot of stuff. There's not always bad people. There's not always people that are guilty in here. One of the hardest things about what I do, cuz I talk to quite a bit of people that are in there for murder, is even though they're found guilty, cuz you're not the only one, there's others too that we can't figure out exactly what happened.

We can't figure out why, what the exact circumstances are. So, I, I wanna tell you something. I don't feel like I'm gonna get you to change your pace here. But you realize that a lot of times when people finally just say exactly what happened, it makes them feel so much better and they can do their time in prison so much easier. I'm telling you exactly what happened.

Have you ever contemplated suicide in there? Yes, I have actually. I've been on suicide watch multiple f***ing times.

I almost succeeded one time. Do you have a lot of contact with friends and family members on the outside? The only person that I really contact is my mom and my dad.

While it's difficult to understand the true motives behind this crime, Isis's time in prison is leading to what she says is a change for her and that she is indeed learning. Nonetheless, the decision by the courts to drop the hate crime in this case is difficult to ignore. The horrifying details of the murder, the intentional targeting of Ally's gendered identity through the stabbing of certain parts of her body, all suggests crime motivated by transphobia. However, the absence of this charge leaves us grappling with uncertainty. Could there be elements of the story that we are yet to uncover? Was this driven by hatred or were there other complex dynamics at play within this tragic event?

These are questions that haunt us as we strive to comprehend the depths of this crime. And its impact on Ally and her loved ones. Before I hung up, I wanted to know if Isis thought about what could have been, did she still think about her ex-fiancee Andrew? Was she angry at him for doing what he did?

More importantly, did she think about Ally and was she remorseful for her role in this tragedy? Have you ever thought about writing Andrew? Once or twice? Yes. This is a guy you were supposed to spend the rest of your life with, and you got. Murder charges. You get put in separate prisons. You never thought about writing somebody that you were gonna spend the rest of your life with?

Sometimes I want to write him, yes, to ask him what happened, like what all went down that day? And then other times I'm just like, yeah, I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna drag up. Do you think Andrew should get outta prison or should die in prison? I don't know. I really don't on that part. Nobody should die in prison.

Even people that have the propensity to kill again? Are you mad at Andrew? Why should I be mad at him? Okay. When he's being punished right now. Okay. You think about Ally a lot? Yeah, I do. Do you feel bad for her family? Yeah, I do. Did the victim's parents ever say anything to you? Did you, have you ever gotten any hate mail?

Not from them, no. But when I was taking my plea deal, they said that they hope my baby died and that I would rot in prison. So is there anything else you want to add to this? I just wish that her family can forgive me for what I've done. What would you tell them if you could talk to 'em? And I'm sorry that nobody should have lost anybody.

It was somebody's child. Yeah, I know. And that's the worst part that Ally was taken too young away from this world I wish that day never happened. Or if I could change places with her, I would. Did you know that the trans community got really big in this murder? Yeah, they think it was all motivated by the fact that Ally was trans, which I somewhat agree. It's hard to rank it a definitive answer, especially after talking to everybody.

But being stabbed in the genitals multiple times really makes one think. But the courts, from my understanding, did not see it that way. I don't think you're in there for a hate crime. I think you're just in there for your plea second degree. I may be wrong about that, but the courts denied that it was.

Motivated by hate. Okay, Isis, I appreciate you coming on. I know that was difficult. Best of luck to you. All right, take it easy. Bye-bye bye.

On the next episode of Voices of a Killer. I've never been in trouble before. Not even a speed ticket or anything. Well, new at 10 tonight, the Oakdale woman accused of murdering a pregnant woman and her unborn baby back in 2011. Then burning and bearing her body will likely spend the rest of her life in prison.

And there was blood all over my floor and it was just like a big puddle of blood on the floor. So you're actually claiming that someone else took this girl's life? Yes. I should have called the police and I should have told someone that was sober and said someone that was drunk. So did you at any point go, what happened?

Why is there a dead body in my room? Yeah. I didn't say anything actually. I just sat there and held my head. That's a wrap on this episode of Voices of a Killer. I want to thank Isis for sharing her story with us today. Her ability to be open and honest is what makes this podcast so special. A big shout out to Sonic Futures who handle the production audio editing, music, licensing, and promotion of this podcast.

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Your feedback helps us improve and reach new listeners. Thank you for your support and we can't wait to share more stories with you in the future. Thank you for tuning in. I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer.