Ep 70 | JOSEPH JOHNSON Transcript

Ep 70 | Joseph Johnson Part 1

Before we begin this podcast, please be advised that the following episode contains language that some listeners may find offensive and inappropriate. The opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not reflect the views of the podcast producers. Listener discretion is advised. This week on Voices of a Killer,

we look at a chilling murder case in the outskirts of St Joseph, Missouri. Over the 4th of July weekend in 2015, Buchanan County Police forcibly entered a home in the quiet neighborhood and were met with a grizzly scene. An elderly couple had been shot several times. Their bodies then discarded nearby.

With no signs of forced entry, suspicion quickly turned to the third occupant of the home, the couple's teenage grandson, Joseph Johnson. Not much was known about the family, who kept out of sight of their neighbors. But as the investigation unfolded, it dug up unsettling details about what had really gone on behind the closed doors of their home.

Today, we're joined by the killer, Joseph Johnson, to tell his never heard before story. For the first time since his conviction, Joseph tells the public why he killed his grandparents at 16 years old, an act he now deeply regrets. Joseph's case bears striking similarities to that of high profile killer Gypsy-Rose Blanchard, a topic we'll discuss at length in this interview.

Throughout, we'll hear Joseph's allegations against his grandparents and the suffering and isolation that pushed him over the edge. So join us for a story of repression and violence with a complex teenage killer at its center in this exclusive interview with Joseph on Voices of a Killer. Joseph, did you grow up in Missouri?

I did. Where at? Bouncing around mostly, but usually in the north, northwestern quarter of the state, around Kansas City Field. You say bouncing around. The first thing I thought of whenever you said you live with your grandparents is bouncing around. How come you didn't live with your parents? Honestly, the easiest way to get to the core of that is to say that my father couldn't stand the sight of me and my mother was in no shape to.

Why would your father not like the sight of you? in his own words, he said, "you look like your mother, you make me sick." How's that feel, you're having your father say that about you? At the time, you know, I was so enamored as a kid that, you know, I just wanted his approval, but I think a lot of my crime was misdirected anger towards him and a lot of my personality, really.

Do you forgive him for not wanting you? You know, I don't forgive him, and in my experience, I don't think forgiving has the healing powers that people do, but I live with it in a healthy way. I don't dwell on it. Do you think you dwelled on it as a little kid whenever he said that to you? I think I kind of repressed it in a way, and I think I channeled it into my homeschool, and I thought if I could be smart enough or good enough, then maybe he could love me.

And what do you think the reason is, if you were to guess, do you think it really is because you look like your mother? you know, I think it's because he had me when he was a young man. He wasn't ready, and I think his mother was a convenient, or my mother was a convenient excuse, and he blamed me for his loss of childhood.

Ironically, which resulted in the loss of mine. How much, or excuse me, how old were you in your childhood whenever you found out he didn't want you? Oh, almost immediately. I've never lived with him. He was only a visitor, you know, a holiday guest. Just seem to have no qualms about making it known. Yeah. And then now you say your mom wasn't fit.

Was she dr*gs, alcohol, abuse or depression or what? Well, to hear her tell it, it was bipolar depression. To hear other people tell it, it was dr*gs, opiates, pills. So I guess that forced you to live with your grandparents. Was that your mother's parents or your dad's parents? I actually lived with both, my mother's parents, but unfortunately she wound up dying of cancer and her husband had no relation to me and I eventually bounced to my father's parents.

So with that being your father's grandparents and you living there, did your father ever come around to see his parents and you were there? Yeah, like I said, holiday visits, the longest was about a one year stretch when he lived with us because he had gotten a girl pregnant and moved her in and had the child and then moved out. Of the same house that you lived in?

Yeah. So you lived with the grandparents and that was dad's parents and, but he had to actually kind of go back to them for a little while and you. Live there with him the same dad that didn't that said he didn't want you? Even worse than that, He was we were all under the same roof. Yeah, actually pulled me out of my room for him to live in my room. Okay, so you got displaced so he could live there.

Yeah. How did that feel with him living there? And you know, that's your father and he didn't want nothing to do with you? It felt bad at first. I was just kind of glad to have him around. I was homeschooled, so obviously if there's a certain emotional immaturity that comes with that because of how isolated my social life was, but what really stung was that he kept my brother, my half brother, And I think that had a more negative effect than anything.

So he favored your half brother that's on his side, his other son? I am the only child my mother or my father didn't want. they've both since kept their children. So then you realized that you were rejected at that young age, didn't you? yes. To Joseph Johnson, the idea of having a loving mom and pop felt like a distant dream.

Early on, Joseph's parents abandoned him in the hands of his grandparents. A stinging rejection that set the tone for the rest of his childhood. Joseph's mother, who battled bipolar and opiate addiction, was clinically unfit to care for her son. And in their rare interactions, Joseph's dad openly expressed his disdain for Joseph, making cruel comments and blaming him for the loss of his bygone youth.

With time, both of Joseph's parents forged new families with new children, solidifying the fact that they had no room for Joseph in their lives. Around the time he turned 13, Joseph was placed under new guardians. He was taken in by his 70 year old paternal grandparents, who lived out in the St Joseph surrounds.

As you head northwest out of the city, paved streets give way for bumpy dirt roads, and densely packed buildings open into stretches of farmland. It was out here, in an upmarket Buchanan County neighborhood, that Joseph's grandparents lived in their 10 year old home at the end of a dead end street.

Before long, Joseph discovered We learned that this new living situation gave him more stability, but it only deepened his feelings of loneliness. Joseph's grandparents were cold and unwelcoming and locked behind the steel gate that marked off the property and Joseph felt like an outsider who didn't belong.

Around the same time I realized my grandparents didn't really either, which was 13. How did that affect you? Did you have these moments where you just sat alone and cried or did you have outbursts or you committed crimes? What did you do? I was always alone. Like I said, I was homeschooled and I was severely isolated in the country.

I only left the house about six hours a week. I was in charge of my own learning. So I was majority alone. I had stopped crying and I was more just a simmering angry kid at that point. And I did shoplift, but there was really no avenue for me to commit worse crimes than that. It seems like the better idea would have been to actually put you in some type of school around a bunch of other kids since your, you know, grandparents didn't really want nothing to do with you, your dad, your mom.

Yet they isolate you even more, probably making it even worse. Do you feel like that? It did. And I actually had a theory when I was 11 about why this was. What's your theory? The child that my grandparents had raised was a miscreant, basically. My father being the worst one. And I felt like they thought that if they latch the discipline down even farther, they might prevent this mistake from happening one last time.

so you got a whole bunch of discipline because of what's happened in the past. What was something that was very strict that they did to you? My room had no door on its hinges. My internet was strictly like monitored, like a basic, a random bag check type situation. Everything I bought, everything, I mean, there was really no facets where like pure surveillance and invasiveness wasn't a factor.

Yeah. What town was this? This was when I was living in St Joe and I was between my, my and my teen, basically just my teen years. Yeah. What, age were you whenever your crime got committed? I had just turned 16. Wow. 16. So, and that's also, you know, 16 year old boy, that's also where things start changing and you probably start becoming a little more aggressive and things like that.

Did you start to kind of have some backlash towards your grandparents on some of the things they were wanting you to do? You know, I had said no to them at one time in my whole existence, really, and my grandfather, who was Really skinny as a whip, picked me up and threw me across the room, which is, was a very unusual emotional outburst for him.

They were very, like, apathetic, cold, and reserved. So I learned from that one time never to say no. So you basically stood your ground one time with them, and he just, you know, come unglued and picked you up and threw you, and you never saw that? Yeah, Was it a pretty big surprise? It wouldn't surprise people now because I got real skinny like after prison but I was 250 pounds then and I was probably like 14 at the time and my grandfather was half that weight.

And he picked me up and threw me, and it was amazing that he could even do that to me. Wow, who would you say no to? It was something so trivial I had long forgot about it. Yeah. I think he was some menial chore. Right, you just said no and he reacted pretty quickly. Did it scare you? Honestly, yeah, it terrified me.

Yeah. The time that your grandfather snatched you up, did your grandma, was she right there? She was. Did she kind of feel bad for you? Because she probably saw the frightened look on your face when he snatched you up. Did she try to, you know, what was her reaction? Pure anger. I mean, she really probably didn't support the overt violence of it because she was a subtler woman in those areas, but I definitely didn't get sympathy.

And, I think an important thing to actually comment on that dynamic is that of the two of them, my grandfather was actually scared of my grandmother. Really? Yeah, it kind of sounds silly to say out loud, but I used to say that it was like being raised by a snake and a bull. She still had the power to bring him down if he absolutely needed to be.

Really? That's interesting. So he pretty much did whatever she wanted him to do. And he, you know, kind of bowed down to her. Yeah. She really wanted to assert herself. Did you get much like hugs and love from your grandparents? No, they were very, just very cold people in general. Yeah. I noticed some families that work like that.

Cause my family's completely opposite. Very touchy. We hug and stuff like that. And so other families are distant, you know, what's up? Since being in prison, I've gotten a lot of chances to educate myself, a lot of areas. I find that a lot of, and talking to other people who have murders, that it's often mother issues and especially lack of affection from mothers that is a very common thread.

Sure. Do you feel like you definitely lack that mother? I, do. I never... I've come to a point where I don't regret it so much, but yeah. Joseph called his grandparents, the bull and the snake, a snide look into their jarring personalities. His grandfather, the bull was all brute strength and anger. The enforcer of rules.

Who wouldn't hesitate to strike Joseph, but it was the snake Joseph's grandmother who pulled the strings manipulative,

and quietly keeping a tight reign on the house. Under his grandparents' roof, Joseph's life was tightly controlled. Fearing that their grandson might follow in the footsteps of his trouble-maker father, Joseph's grandparents knuckled down on discipline, adopting an authoritarian style of parenting. Constantly, Joseph was subject to surveillance and invasions of his privacy. His internet usage monitored, his belongings picked through, and his bedroom door taken off its hinges. Trying to fend off outside influences, Joseph's grandparents chose to homeschool the teen, which left him severely isolated.

Above all, Joseph remembers his grandparents' Herlingen Roadhouse to be a cold and distant place, where he was deeply alienated from those responsible for caring for him. Painfully devoid of affection, and now trapped like a prisoner in his new home, Joseph tells me he became a quote unquote, "simmering angry kid."

As the years rolled on, Joseph's resentment towards his grandparents grew and grew without an outlet. I, resented him and my grandmother. Yes. But honestly, it was more just fear. So you feared them? Yeah, most definitely. Did you fear your grandmother physically too? Yeah, actually, looking back on it, like, in an actual numbers game, she actually wound up hitting me and striking me more than he ever did.

At what age did your grandmother hit you first? I honestly couldn't remember that far back. It's been the longest. Was it before 10 years old? Yeah, safely, I can say, yeah. Okay, and how would she hit you? Upside the head, or grab you, you know, was it pretty physical? Beats over and over again, or what? You know the old stereotype about the grandmother with the wooden spoon, right?

Sure. Well, I mean, it was often just wooden spoons, rolling pins, getting upside as I got older, it came to full on, just getting cuffed upside the head, punched, and an important thing that I would like to make the distinction of is that The homeschool thing has to be held prevalent here. These days, I wouldn't call that abuse.

I've met people that have gone through very serious abuse. But, being in such isolation, never leaving the house or interacting with other children, that abuse, quote unquote, seems so magnified that it seems like the worst thing in the world to me. Yeah. So, there is degrees to abuse, obviously, but also, whoever is the recipient of the abuse It's kind of their decision on how much that affects them.

Everybody's different. So it may be mild abuse, but for you, you know, it might be psychologically very damaging compared to someone else. I would assume, I think I've heard that before, you know, said before by a psychologist or something, you know, there's a couple, I don't know if you watch the news in prison, but there's actually a bunch of stories out there.

Some of them are different, obviously, than, you know, there's not a carbon copy to yours, but these parents that are like, you know, they're really strict parents, they're actually really good parents except, you know, except that they're doing extreme things that are actually, you know, defined as abuse.

As far as tying their kids up and shit and punishing them by not letting them eat and things like that, did you ever get that kind of stuff? There were a few occasions where I was locked outside the house. I remember sleeping in leaves and things like that, but I think abuse is a way broader category than people think, for example, a handful of years ago I had the great honor to have a correspondence with Gypsy-Rose. I don't know if you're familiar with her. I've talked to her before. And she actually had a very interesting take on abuse in at least her conversations with me, and it was basically anything that could hurt.

Sure. Yeah, so do you feel like every time that was happening and you were, you couldn't, you know, express yourself or defend or talk back that you were just getting repressed more and more? Yeah, it was like, I'd even go so far as to say it felt like oppression, like it was, it felt, to me like pure tyranny because I had absolutely no options or choises.

Joseph's grandparents ran an oppressive household where Joseph's every move was surveilled and dictated. But although he lived in constant fear of his grandparents, Joseph hesitates to call his experience abuse. Years later, Joseph would share a similar sentiment when he stood trial for his crime.

Taking the stand, Joseph apologetically told the courtroom that he had mistaken discipline for abuse. There's a thin line between harsh parenting and abuse, and it's a line disciplinarian parents often straddle. To take a definition from the United States Department of Health and Human Services, child abuse constitutes any failure by a caretaker that leads to a child's emotional or physical harm. I'm no expert, but it's possible that the strict discipline Joseph endured ticks some of the boxes of this definition of abuse. Joseph was stripped of his right to privacy and dignity, kept willfully isolated from others, and deprived of any agency over his life.

All this was exacerbated by his homeschooled upbringing, which gave Joseph no release valve from the intense control he faced at home. While Joseph's household felt rigid and unkind, he still assumed that his grandparents had his best interests at heart and would never put his well being at risk. After the break, we hear an incident that made Joseph question whether that assumption still rang true.

Did you ever React to your grandmother. You said the one time that you reacted and that's whenever your grandfather snatched you up or whatever, there was no other time? There was no other time. No. You were 16 when this murder occurred? Just about a month into being 16. Where were you at in your head around that age of being 16?

So you're only a month into it. So tell me about your birthday. What'd you do for your 16th birthday? I honestly couldn't tell you. Most of the days like that were blur, but I will tell you an incident that, within that few months, that really solidified for me that not only did they not love me in my view, but also I started to hate them.

And it was, I had what has been described to me since then as a seizure. I don't know the accuracy of that. But I was getting out of the shower and I started to feel horrible. And my vision started to white out, and like, my heart was beating out of my chest, and I thought that I was dying, very seriously, and I had stumbled out naked, and had asked for help, and that I think I need to go to the hospital, or whatever, and they just kind of yelled at me, and told me to get on, and I went to the hallway, and I had fallen down in the hallway. And I had whited out, I guess I had been laying there for quite some time, it was about 10, 15 minutes had passed, and after that I genuinely felt like they didn't care if I lived or died. Neither did they come and even check on me. So that was kind of like a turning point right there, where something serious medically happened to you and they brushed it off.

Yes. Did you really kind of get into yourself and into your head after that, did you just kind of, the anger just was just really there? Absolutely. And as I've, already mentioned, the homeschool thing can never be understated because, especially with people that are as quiet as them, my mind only had itself for a reference and a teenage going through a hard time, like, your mind just eats itself.

So that's funny, your mind is its own reference. And then you have grandparents that are basically, it's almost like you're a burden to them, and they're just going through the motions, and then, you know, and real strict, that's, you know, I think if anybody listening could put themselves in that position, it'd be very difficult, and it sounds like a turning point came with this medical thing.

Did you ever figure out what happened to you while you blacked out like that? You know, it happened a few times since then, the best theory I've heard is that it's some type of a seizure, but I haven't had it in years, so I honestly couldn't tell you. No substances involved? No, I've honestly never done anything in my life.

A couple of things, I come to prison, but for most of my life, no dr*gs, obviously, because of the homeschool, I'm a virgin, no alcohol, m*th, nothing. You went to prison a virgin? Yes. And how, what's Two life sentences, but with recent law changes they gave me parole for 2030 to decide if they can let me out earlier.

As Joseph neared his 16th birthday, his daily life was one monotonous blur, an indication of how emotionally numb he'd become. However, there's one incident that stands out sharp and clear in Joseph's mind. Joseph describes a medical scare, similar to a seizure, that struck him while he exited a shower one day.

Although Joseph called out for help and collapsed in the hallway, his grandparents showed no concern. Despite the danger Joseph could have been in, they ignored their grandson with cold indifference. This marked an inflection point in Joseph's relationship with his grandparents. It served as proof that, although his grandparents were the caretakers who fed and clothed him, they didn't truly care if he lived or died.

To Joseph, it exposed his grandparents' true colors, reinforcing his understanding that they cared. They were ambivalent towards him at best. After this, Joseph's anger towards his grandparents festered, and this incident became the catalyst for a dangerous new thought that entered Joseph's mind. So let's back up a little bit back to this time that you had the seizure.

How long before the murder was that seizure? A few months, give or take. A few months, and were you doing homeschooling at that time? Yeah, almost my whole life. Yeah, but I mean, you were in session though, that you were actively doing it? Yeah, I mean, like I said, I was pretty much left in charge of my own education, so as much as a session meant to me, doing my own thing.

So you said that you were also out in the country, just isolated and everything. Did you ever come across anybody through social media where you could get away and see a girl or, you know, go hang out with a guy or anything? Strangely enough, I had a very lack of imagination in using it, but there was a girl.

We went through a breakup and there was another girl that came after that, and obviously this was a very charged time, and she had actually, because I had done one of my teenage rants, "I could just kill them," and she had said, ""well, why don't you? And that was also a turning moment because it came, It hit me then that it might actually be an option.

So what did she say? She basically just said, "well, why don't you?" Why don't you what? Kill them. You had told, you told her that you were thinking about killing them? Yeah. And how did that make you feel hearing her just kind of, you know, confirm that? it, to have something like become an option to you, and I tell people, especially new people in here, that are, you know, Because I help some people, like, to deal with their traumas coming in here, like, when they're a wreck.

And I tell them, like, okay, this is forever going to be an option for you. That's something you have to live with and adjust with. And that was a big transition for me. Yeah. So this girl that told you, "why don't you do it?" Did you, kind of in your head say, "you know what? That's right. I should do it."

Yeah. I mean, that was essentially like two plus two moment. Did you tell her, "okay, I'm going to do this?" I did actually. What was her reaction to you confirming it? She didn't seem to have any problem with it whatsoever. It was very bizarre. I've still yet to figure out where her head's facing. Yeah. Did she kind of encourage more than just agree?

Did she kind of help you plan everything? She was honestly kind of just an impartial observer. Like, she was my Almost like a, yeah, I mean, really just like a camera. Like it was following me around, like not really input. Just willing to listen to what was going on. Yeah. So she was your sounding board.

Did you tell her about planning it and stuff like that? Did you get as far as, "Hey, this is this day" and all that? Well, I mean, there was no real plan, but yeah, she was there for most of the train of thought. Did y'all have multiple discussions about it? yes. Do you think she was kind of intrigued at the fact that you might kill your grandparents?

Probably. I question sometimes whether she was just like a role play girl that like maybe was trying to live out a fantasy. But I really don't know. And you never got a chance to have sex with this girl? No. So are you, starting to think about ways you would do it? In my head, there was really the only way, cause there was a whole bunch of guns through the house, so it seemed like a given that would be the method.

Although that's not necessarily how it worked out. The guns you said? Yeah. Yeah. Whenever you were actually like getting things together, the gun and like kind of planning it at that moment. What kind of thoughts, also, besides planning it, were you like, "yeah, I'm probably going to go to prison for this, but I'm just going to go ahead and do it anyway?"

it felt at the risk of sounding dramatic, it honestly felt like I was in a state of oppression and it wasn't enough to escape it, it was that I had to lash back or just get rid of the oppressors themselves. It was very, like, I don't know if you could say it was a philosophical indignation or something like that, but it was very, Like I said, you could call it dramatic.

Did you ever start to get to where you were like, mad, and you said, "listen, if they do anything tonight, I swear to God, if they try to pull any shit this night, that's when I'm doing it." Did you start telling yourself these kind of things? no, actually, cause I was being raised by people like that, who didn't talk very much, all this other thing, it, there was a certain degree of subtlety to almost every interaction thing there, so I, consider myself to be a subtle person, or like, when I would steal things, shoplift, and I was a sneak thief, so, the idea of a big, dramatic outburst is, even to this day, very alien to me, so it was gonna be, one of those silent, don't see it coming things, but it was never a question for me.

So, your house, that household is very, nobody really talks to each other much, nobody really interacted with you much or anything, huh? Yeah, I mean, it was being alone with a couple of caretakers. Yeah, I can almost see that. It's very eerie for the child because the child just really likes, especially little boy, he wants another little boy to hang out with and, you know, show things and experience things and just, you know what I mean?

It's like, that's crazy. You were completely isolated. Not only that, but just, you know, no loving family, no, mom or dad, that's awful. Months after the medical scare, a dark seed of thought took root in Joseph's brain. He started to believe that the quickest way to free himself from his grandparents was to kill them, as these thoughts of murder turned in Joseph's mind over the coming weeks.

What began as an angsty fantasy soon became a concrete plan of action. A key factor that strengthened Joseph's resolve was a conversation he'd had with a girl online. The girlfriend seemed to get a thrill out of talking about murder and encouraged Joseph to go ahead with it. The many conversations they had on the subject gave Joseph permission to take murder as a viable option.

Another factor in all this was Joseph's homeschooling, which distorted his thinking. Stuck in total isolation, and often left with only his thoughts to keep him company, Joseph was cut off from others and lived in a kind of echo chamber. Because of this, Joseph convinced himself that the only way out of his intolerable living situation was to eliminate his grandparents once and for all.

Joseph had easy access to his grandfather's gun collection, so the means was readily available. And as he considered the logistics of the act, Joseph imagined not a dramatic outburst, but a quiet, calculated approach. Approach something his grandparents would never see coming the day before the 4th of July weekend in 2015, Joseph typed a text message to his girlfriend and hit send.

It said, "today is the day." Next time on Voices of a Killer, joseph's murderous plans become a reality.

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That's a wrap on this episode of Voices of a Killer. A big shout out to Sonic Futures who handled the production, audio editing, music licensing, and promotion of this podcast. If you want to hear more episodes like this one, make sure to visit our website at voicesofakiller.com. There you can find previous episodes, transcripts, and additional information about the podcast.

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I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer.

Ep 70 | Joseph Johnson Part 2

Welcome back to the second installment of Joseph Johnson's story. Last time, Joseph revisited his life under the roof of his strict and distant grandparents. Desperately looking for an escape from their control, Joseph began plotting the murder for which he's in jail today. Now, Joseph breaks down the day that irreversibly changed his life on this episode of Voices of a Killer.

So tell me about this time getting a little bit closer to the day that this is going to happen. Did you start planning it or was there something that they did that set you off? I get asked about a trigger event so often I can honestly say there really wasn't one. It was three days where I took, and I had considered the possibility of suicide at that time.

And that was just kind of repugnant to me. So I just kind of moved forward when I stopped having self doubts. Yeah, and before you carry on to tell me what exactly happened, did you have any kind of thoughts, "listen, you know, In a few more years, I'm going to be old enough to where I can go do my own thing.

I have to put up with this for just a little while longer and I'll have my freedom. And also, if I do this, I'm facing," you watch the news, you see these people do things like this and they go to prison. So where were you at in your head? I had actually not had access to TV, only internet for a lot, and true crime wasn't really a thing I was into.

So I didn't have that referenced. Yeah. And althe, I was basicallylly their sole, like, officiary in a trust, because they had, they flat out told me they didn't want the rest of their children to have it. Yeah. And, but it was conditional on me doing certain things in life. Right. So even if they had died right then and there, My financial security was staked in doing what they wanted me to do.

Right. What was the, you said the guns were the number one" idea? Yeah. actually, if I can just go right into what happened, I mean, if that's agreeable to you. Yeah, I may stop you if, if I need a little more detail, but go ahead. Okay, what had happened was, I had basically said, I couldn't handle the idea of that freedom being dangled in front of me anymore, so I went and grabbed two guns, both were, like, little miniature 9mms that were kept in desk stands.

Let me stop you right there. Whenever you decide to do this, did they just tell you, "hey, you can't do something," or it was just, were you even interacting with them just before that? I wasn't actually. And where were they whenever you started to go get all this stuff? They were sitting in the living room and it was a living room, kitchen combo.

So it was like all open, like a straight line. Okay. So continue, you're going to get what now? These two nine millimeter guns. Okay. I had walked into the kitchen and they were, neither one of them were turned away from me. And I had, for the sake of my own closure, I had told them that I loved them one last time.

I don't know whether that could be said to be accurate, but... so hold on, you walked into this kitchen and they were right there looking at you with the, you were holding the guns? No, they were, focused on their own activities. But you actually announced that you loved them? I did, and deconstructing that later, I honestly think that was more of, my way of, like, showing at least some gratitude for the fact that they had raised me and sheltered me and... yeah, you know, you grabbed two 9mms, did you have both of them in your hand?

Two different guns? Yes I did. I had walked into the kitchen with a suit jacket on and they were in each pocket and I had pulled them out at the same time. Why did you put a suit jacket on just to be able to hold them? That was actually kind of what I usually wore. I mean, we were a very like, yeah, this is our household.

Were you, okay, so a suit jacket, that was your household. Are you saying y'all were really wealthy? We were upper middle class. I mean, it was more wealth through being frugal as opposed to... sure. Well, either way, it's still money. So did your grandparents are very like uppity and stuff like that with money or what?

They were savvy in investing. Did they require you to dress a certain way all the, time? Definitely. There was a different code of like behavior and politeness and things like that. Yeah. I know which fork is the salad fork, basically. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So how does that affect you in prison being such, you know, cause you, I know where you're probably seeing a lot of complete opposite of how you grew up.

People that lived on the fringes, you know. You know, I've always been called a fast learner, and over time, you know, I've just, I've grown to get used to it. I've found that I gotta, I guess you call it the gifts of gab, so I mean... so you've adapted. Oh yes. So you, the last part you left off, you walked in the kitchen and you actually told them that you loved them.

And they were kind of, to their own devices, doing things. They didn't really acknowledge that, did they, whenever you said that? No, they did not. Is that whenever you pulled out the guns? Yes. Tell me what happened. Well, there was obviously... So I pulled the trigger. So who did you point at first? I pointed at both of them at the same time.

Okay, so both, you double fisted the 9mms and were they next to each other on the couch? Lazy boys or what? To set the scene, my grandfather was directly in front of me in a recliner, faced away. And my grandmother was facing to the side in a leather couch and I had pulled the guns out, but I was kind of holding them in an L.

Did either one of them see you holding that gun up to them? No, they did not. Now we, most people that know pistols, they're not all that easy to hit your mark and holding two of them and trying to hit both of them at the same time, were you successful at the first shot getting both of them? Well, I guess you'd say three quarters successful and I'll explain why.

My grandfather had many guns, as I said, and as such, I had been taught how to shoot. So I had struck her. How close were you to her? 10, 15 feet away. Okay. You're still a little ways away and you still were able to hit her in the temple? Yeah. Okay. But him, I only struck in the spine. And there was a moment where he started to get up in surprise, but I'm guessing some type of spinal fluid leaked or something that, something happened.

Where did, you say you hit him? I assume it was in the spine because he had started to get up, but he fell back, paralyzed, and he wasn't able to move or utter any words after that. So, so before you move any further, the point before you shoot your grandparents alive, once you pull that trigger, death is imminent.

How do you feel at that point? Are you still like exactly where you want to be or is that a reality shot to you? "Wow. I really just laid over my grandparents." You know, I'm unashamed to say that in that exact moment so much happened that I literally after both shots had rung out, I remember dropping the guns and there was a vivid smell of gunpowder.

And it's one of those things that stays with you, and I, on a spiritual level, I sincerely believe to this day, I felt life go out of that room. It was kind of like when you cut a phone call off or something, there's just that absent you feel. You felt the silence? Did they both pass away right away? Yeah, it was like, but it was also a weight being lifted off in a very eerie sort of way.

So you almost felt like you, you just disconnected all the stress in your life? Yeah, I definitely would say that. Joseph recalls the killing with chilling clarity. There wasn't a single trigger event. No argument took place to set Joseph's plan in motion. Rather, it was the product of years of neglect and isolation, with Joseph convinced that this was his only way out.

With a clear sense of resolve, Joseph collected his grandfather's two 9mm pistols, concealed them in his pockets, and walked into the open plan living room where his grandparents sat, engrossed in their own activities. For the last time, Joseph told his grandparents he loved them, then he raised the pistols and shot simultaneously.

The first shot hit his grandmother in the temple, killing her instantly. The second paralyzed his grandfather, hitting him in the spine. Minutes after the bullets rang out, Joseph vividly recalls feeling that his grandparents' spirits had left the room. In the eerie silence that followed, the smoky smell of gunpowder wafted through the room, and a weight seemed to lift itself off Joseph's shoulders.

The years of repression under his grandparents had come to an end, leaving Joseph to confront the grim reality of what he'd done. However, the deed wasn't fully complete. With his grandfather sitting paralyzed, Joseph had more bullets left to shoot, and the worst act was yet to come. After the break, we hear Joseph's next moves.

So how long after you shot him did you just sit there and contemplate things and look at them, you know, and act, look at 'em dead? Well, there's more to the story of the shooting because like as I said, my grandfather's, though paralyzed, was still alive. Okay. Afraid it got more gruesome. Yeah. From here on out.

That's okay. Go ahead. So realizing he was still alive, I had for some reason, decided to turn the gun downward and shoot him from the top of his skull down. And this is, in a gruesome way, even a lot of people in prison don't seem to be aware of, is if you shoot someone straight from the head down, apparently there's like a pressure buildup.

So I had a lot of, to use a clinically less gory term, grey matter gushing forth, and still, he seemed to be alive. And so at this point, I had... You had stuff, his stuff was gushing out of his head? Yes, and at this point there are these moments where you know you're being traumatized. Sure. This point I said, I grabbed the belt, I pinched it around his neck and I left to go outside.

So let me ask you, how many times all together did you shoot your grandfather? Twice. So that second shot was in the head and he was, he still was fighting for life. Did he look at you and give you a look like 'why' or anything like that? no, I honestly don't even think he could move his eyes at that point, but I could still hear breathing and there was like a, enough to make me believe he was still alive.

Did that freak you out? Like I said, and like I've told many people, there are these moments where, you know, you're being traumatized and that after that point, I think I had gone into a state of shock. And so you went and grabbed a belt or you took your belt off or you went and found one and put it around his neck and cinched it?

Yeah, I had, found one from my room, cinched it, and I had gone outside. And this entire time, your grandmother's just laid over dead? Yeah. Yes. So you went outside after you cinched it, what did you do outside, how long did you stay out there? I talk about this moment a lot because it's really deep for me, is that what snapped me out of the shock was the sound of birds singing.

And I had realized that not only were birds singing, squirrels, and f*cking... Life was going on. Life went on. And it really not only struck for me that life doesn't have a soundtrack, I guess you could say that it's not, the world doesn't stop for anyone, and not only did it emphasize their mortality, but it taught me my own.

And that horrified me in a new way that I had to learn to accept for years on. It's almost like I can see you going outside and everything's like perfectly normal life is going on with the birds and the squirrels. And how long did you sit out there contemplating? I was, I had fallen down to my knees, honestly, and I was listening and I was angry and I was shocked, but I was in a stunned, slack-jawed silence, just kind of looking around.

I can only imagine how I looked, but probably for a good 10 minutes, so I started going back on autopilot. And where'd you go after you, your 10 minutes? I had gone to the cars, I had thrown together what money and credit cards I could find, and I had left. Did you go back and make sure that they were both passed away?

I would, I could say I did, but no, not really. So you say, you talk about, you've said this several times, that you mention things, do you talk about it a lot in prison? Yeah, I find that I've run across a lot of people that have not, that don't want to talk about their own things. And I find that opening up myself helps open up those conversations and I've been able to help some people work through it or even if just to give a good story, me telling the story helps me put things in perspective.

And each time I tell it, I learned something new. Now years later, looking back, do you feel like what you did was justified, or do you think that you could have went about it a different way, or how do you feel now? I think for someone in my position who had very little of societal things, like being isolated as I was, it was about as justified as you could get being that isolated and without any frame of reference.

Obviously in our bigger culture and knowledge, I don't think it's justified. There were so many easier solutions. And that's what I was going to tell you is I can understand the anger. And I bet there's a lot of people, if you laid out your life for them, you know, detail for detail, they could all agree that, wow, that's, a lot of pressure for somebody and not loved because you weren't loved also, not just the pressure, but also no positive reinforcement whatsoever, but.

Also, you're at an age where you're literally months away from where you can say, "Hey man, deuces up, I'm out," you know, and just be done with them. So yeah, that's, but, you know, that's your shoes and I'm talking from my shoes and I didn't live that life and I could tell by talking to you, you're not some kind of like crazy person man.

You sound extremely normal and you just sound like somebody that probably was not loved, you know what I mean? Nearly 10 years after these murders, it's clear that Joseph has often revisited the events of that day with years of maturity behind him and an expanded adult mind. Joseph regrets making the irreversible decision to kill.

He acknowledges that there were many other options available to him to escape the situation he was in. Unfortunately, as a teenager, his twisted sense of righteousness made him believe his grandparents deserved to die. In a particularly poignant moment, Joseph recalls stepping outside his grandparents' home.

In the backyard, birds sang and life spun around him, in stark juxtaposition to the gory crime scene where his grandparents' bodies lay, their blood still fresh. It struck Joseph that the world continued on, indifferent to his actions. The banality of the moment brought Joseph a sudden awareness of his own mortality, something that would profoundly change Joseph's thinking and haunt him in the years to come.

In stunned silence, Joseph processed the enormity of his actions. Then, his brain kicked into autopilot. With two still warm bodies and a holiday weekend coming up, time ticked on, and it wouldn't take long for the crime to be discovered. Acting in a mechanical way, Joseph replaced the pistols in their cases, collected credit cards, and switched the license plate of his grandparents' car.

He then tacked a note to the front door of the house, telling visitors his grandparents were away on a two week trip to Texas, and to leave any packages by the front door. Having bought himself some time, Joseph now prepared to leave this home that had held a great deal of pain for him. However, Joseph's attempt to run away was poorly planned.

With no clear plans other than to disappear somewhere into the arteries of Midwestern roads and survive as a fugitive, Joseph's freedom would be short lived. We'll hear more about Joseph's time on the run on the next episode of Voices of a Killer.

If you want to find out what happens next, right now, you can sign up at patreon.com/voicesofakiller. There you can find bonus content, early access, ad free listening, and access to our chat community. So go to patreon.com/voicesofakiller to sign up now. Your support is what keeps us passionate about bringing these stories to you.

Ep 70 | Joseph Johnson Part 3

Welcome back to the final part of Joseph Johnson's case. When we last left off in our conversation, Joseph recalled the chilling murder of his elderly grandparents. With the deed now done, Joseph's mind turned to covering up his crime, and we hear Joseph's break for freedom on the open Missouri roads on this episode of Voices of a Killer.

So you pack up everything in the car. What's your thought when you're packing these up? You're going to go to Mexico? You're going to go just driving? What? I had thought to go east because in my mind, most people have the instinct to run toward wilderness or open spaces to hide, but at that age I had kind of formulated this theory that the cities were actually a better place to disappear like a rat in a sewer, basically.

Okay. Yeah, and did you actually drive off and head that way? Yeah, I did. I headed eastbound towards Kentucky, I believe it was. What kind of stuff did you pack? Did you take all their credit cards and cash? Did you like... yeah, mostly cash and just random knick knacks, you know. Did you bring weapons? Obviously a teenager took. Did you bring guns?

I did not. I did not because I had thought that on the off chance I got pulled over, weapons would not be a great thing. Smart. Even I, in that upper class upbringing didn't trust cops not to shoot me. And I think that right there, whenever you go for parole, you know, it shows that you're not, you know, you had an isolated event, you know, and I'm not saying that it's what you do is justified at all, but you know, you weren't like some killer that took the guns with you to do more harm.

You were just like, you know, that was an isolated thing. But so you head out, did you make it outside of the state of Missouri? I did not. Oh, I forget about this sometimes, but something that a lot of people found amusing was that I had actually taken the family cat with me in a cat carrier on the passenger side.

Were you attached to the cat or you just did it randomly? I was definitely attached to it. I mean, it's, you know, animals, animal never really does any wrong. And it was always there to listen to my voice. So you took the cat and you said you didn't make it out of Missouri? No, in Platt County, which is almost literally the next county

down from where I was at, I got pulled over by state troopers, I believe. Did they already find your grandparents that quick? No, but being the genius that I was, I had taken a car when I had never driven before. Oh, okay. Okay, I forgot you were pretty young, so you actually got pulled over for like a traffic violation?

Yeah, and from there on I had no permit or ID or anything, so they had to get an address, and I mean the rest is history. Yeah, they got the address and actually went down there and found your grandparents dead? Yes. Where were you at? Were you in their custody or on the side of the road when they went and found them?

Yes, and they transferred me to Buchanan County shortly after. So you were on the side of the road, they were like, "hey, let's go to his grandparents" because they were probably questioning you. Did they kind of feel like something was wrong, because you just killed, you know, two people? Did they, when they were questioning you, were like, something's off?

I think they definitely thought I was odd, but I think what had happened later, I found this after the fact, was that Buchanan County went there, and because I was a juvenile, their procedure was to completely let me believe whatever I wanted. They said they were taking me to a, Buchanan County, they originally were telling me they were taking me home, but by the time I went past the turnoff, it was obvious I was going to a facility there, and while it was obvious to me what was happening, they still refused to speak to me, because, as a juvenile, they have very procedural things that they're allowed to do with you.

Yeah. So in order for them to talk to you, they had to get somebody next to kin. Both your grandparents are dead. Who'd they call? There was no one. Actually, my father was MIA and all the rest of my family was out of state. So it fell on a, one of the public defenders. Oh, a state. They basically appointed somebody from the state?

Yeah. And they come introduce themselves and say, "Hey, listen, since you're a minor, we can't find any of your next of kin. I'm going to go ahead and speak for you or help you," you know? Yeah. And did you go in there and confess? I did not. Did you come up with a scheme, a lie about everything? No. I mean, I honestly, I was honestly tired at that point and I had lost a lot of fight by that time.

I was obviously, I was dealing with the existential crisis that came with the crime itself and it occupied most of my time just dealing with the trauma of what happened and my own mortality as a consequence. So you went ahead and broke and told them everything that happens, is what you're saying?

No, but I did eventually take an open plea, which was amounted to the same thing long term. Sure. So you actually never told the cops "hey, this is what happened." This is the first time you're telling somebody to the public? Yeah, I had given the barest of facts in the court. This is actually the first time I've gone this in depth in the story publicly.

What makes you want to tell your story? I think it's valuable because obviously, I told you once before, I've talked to Gypsy-Rose, I've talked to a few other people my age, and I've seen on the news a lot of people in my position. And when I was young, I had also wondered, are there people like me out there?

So, I mean, I think anyone that hears this can maybe gain some perspective, or maybe not feel so alienated. Hours after his grandparents' deaths, Joseph headed east toward Kentucky, hoping to disappear into the cracks of the big city. However, Joseph's inexperience caught up with him, quickly leading to his capture by state troopers.

At about 12:30 am on July 4th, Joseph was pulled over in a traffic stop, some 30 miles south of St Joseph, and officers discovered that he wasn't legally allowed to drive. As they dug deeper, the troopers quickly ascertained that something was deeply amiss. An attempt to contact Joseph's legal guardians led police to discover his grandparents' dead bodies, which now lay in an open field adjacent to their home.

By the time Joseph was escorted into an interrogation room, he refused to give a confession. In fact, this interview is the first time Joseph has publicly disclosed how he killed his grandparents, marking a turning point in his life. Since the day he was arrested, Joseph has opened up many times about his crime to other prison inmates.

Whether his story can serve as a cautionary tale, or a way to process his past trauma, Joseph finds that telling his story can help others in similar situations feel less alone, and give him closure over a painful time of his life. Twice in the course of our interview, Joseph mentions the name of a figure who's been a hot topic in the news, Gypsy-Rose Blanchard.

Gypsy attracted widespread media attention for her hand in killing her mother in 2015, the same year that Joseph's crime took place. Like Joseph, Gypsy suffered a life of neglect and was abused by a mother who convinced her that she was severely ill and in need of constant medical attention. Tired of her mother's relentless control and being stripped of independence, Gypsy eventually colluded with her boyfriend to murder her mother in her bed.

The case has received equal parts controversy and sympathy for Gypsy, who was initially sentenced to 10 years, but served only 8. The more I hear about Joseph's case, the clearer the parallels seem between him and Gypsy's. Seeing as Joseph has talked to Gypsy in the past, I wondered more about their conversations and how their crimes intersect.

Joseph, one of the things that you mentioned earlier in the interview was Gypsy-Rose, and I'm not sure if you have access to see all the stuff that goes on the outside, but she's just all over the news, she's got social media, she has a major fan following and also she has people that's against her and one of the reasons that people's against her is because she has a co-defendant and the co-defendant was an autistic kid and you know a lot of people think that she coerced this autistic kid into killing her mother.

How much do you know about all that? The majority, mostly what everyone else knows and a little from personal interaction. I actually made it a point to try to get to know on a level apart from the crime because it's too easy for people like us to become identified with that one action. And the fact is that in our minds, it's just another event in the long chain.

And especially when we're young, things are intense at the time, but they lose their sting after a lot of years. Yeah. Cause I'm sure there's a lot more to Gypsy than just her crime. And I'm sure there's a lot more to you than just, you know, your crime, but if you think about it, y'all are kind of similar because your grandparents really restricted you and so much so that you were just even out in the country and you know, weren't really having any friends over to sleep over and correct me if I'm wrong, right?

You didn't, that didn't happen, right? I never. Yeah. So they really just kind of, you know, they didn't, Gypsy's deal was, you know, Munchausen syndrome where they, you know, she was made to be, look like she was sick all the time. But, you know, your deal is just restricting you from anything. But also, like I was going back to, is she had a co-defendant and a lot of people don't like Gypsy because, you know, they feel bad for the co-defendant because he had autism and they think that he got the raw end of the deal and she kind of got off with murder.

How do you feel about that? You know, I think, in my personal opinion, that I'm generally, decently, because I'm very open about what I did and why I did it, and I don't entertain any illusions as to why. I think one of the reasons she receives so much animosity is because she has, And I use this, not in a negative way, but she has excuses, which are, some of them, quite valid, in the sense that, like, she and I, for real, were not in mentally right places, but I know that, ultimately, I did what I did because I wanted to, like, I consciously chose that over running away or something.

With her, she was in a more addled state of mind, like, she was, like I was, like, very isolated, but she also had this dude that was kind of willfully engaging in a fantasy. Yeah. Back and forth. So you have not only one, you have two minds that aren't on the right field there. I think to apply a rational mind to that sort of thing is being unfair to her.

Yeah. Knowing her story, and just your opinion, what do you think should happen to her? Do you think everything was just? Do you think she should have been let off altogether? What do you think? Justice-wise, I think mental health treatment would have been the best. I think personal, like in her personal life, she needs someone who's willing to be a friend as opposed to searching for romance.

Because right now she's in a battle to not only grow up but learn how to live life or at the very least gain perspective like someone like us who's had an adjustment period. How did you get in touch with her? Back when we could still write back and forth between prisons I had seen one of her lifetime deals and I had basically just had a bunch of people remarking on the similarities and I had heard a lot of people dogging on her and I felt offended by it so I decided well I'm going to find out for myself.

At a time my mother was in my life, I asked her to get the DOC number and I just wrote both the women's prison addresses and waited to get a response. What did y'all talk about? I mean, honestly, we had just started talking about our crimes and we had started getting to know each other and then she had met who she was with right now.

Yeah. So, I mean, after that, it kind of terminated. So, do you feel like you have a connection to Gypsy-Rose because she had abuse from her mother and you kind of had the same thing with your grandparents? We have a passing linkage just in the kind of trauma we endured, like, where our mind ate themselves and we temporarily fell into what I think was kind of a fantasy world where we were easily susceptible to just doing things just completely the wrong way.

We can find many echoes of Joseph's crime in Gypsy's. Both Gypsy and Joseph were morally ambiguous and complicated young people who did the unthinkable in a desperate attempt to exert independence. Just like Gypsy, Joseph's stifling home life stunted his ability to live a happy free life. And just like Gypsy, Joseph was cut off from interacting with the outside world, which left him unable to think rationally and made murder seem like his only viable escape route.

Having these haunting similarities with Gypsy's case, and after exchanging letters with her, Joseph offers some insight into the psychology that pushed both him and Gypsy to take another human life. And although Gypsy's high profile case received a flood of national interest, I wonder why the news didn't pick up Joseph's case too.

Raised in an unloving household and deprived of care, Joseph has been used to living in isolation throughout his life. How has that changed, I wondered, in what is now his new home, the inside bars of his jail cell? I put that question to Joseph after this break.

Listening to your story, man, you kind of was in prison, you know, while you're on the outside with your grandparents, wouldn't you agree? Yeah, I often tell people that I was born and raised in prison. Yeah, you know, something that also caught my attention, the news actually said, and maybe not just all the articles, maybe just one, but I really did see the news did mention that you were kind of oppressed by your grandparents.

So obviously that got out some kind of way. And also, the news, I'm surprised they even said that instead of trying to twist it like you were an evil grandkid or something like that. So how do you think they found that out, the news, did you tell the police or defense attorney or what? I mean, I actually don't know how that got out because I was like, maybe my defense attorney, who is a very nice person, by the way, regardless of the verdict, I can't blame her for that.

But I actually don't know. Like I said, I was not really in contact with much of anyone. Who is your defense attorney? Sue Rinne from Buchanan County. And why the nice words? You know, I, it caught me by surprise, but I mean, obviously, during the trial day, I was kind of jaded. I really went in there, like, being willing to accept the worst.

So when I got it, I didn't faze me, but I turned to the side, and Sue Rinne and my paralegal, were both crying and apologizing to me. It was kind of heartwarming that someone gave that much of a beeswax. You felt that something that you don't or never probably really felt somebody actually caring about you personally, huh?

Yeah, it was very interesting. Joseph, I feel really bad for you, man. I can't imagine a life as a child, just grandparents that are just kind of bitter about you being in the house and, you probably always at your own devices and trying to figure out, you know, how to live without pissing them off and stuff like that.

It was probably pretty tough, wasn't it? I mean, it is tough, but I, will say that I, and I thank you for that, by the way, but I will say to everybody that, there are gifts that come along with that, and anyone who feels the same way, or can sympathize with what I'm going through, or went through, I should say, is that I've got a lot of mental gifts from that because I lived in my head, because I kind of shied away from my emotions.

So, I mean, there's a lot of gifts that came with that. Yeah. Do you have people on the outside that reach out to you, or do you have people that you can reach out to? I do not. So, is your mother still in your life? No. She's dying of AIDS. Oh, okay. When's the last time you spoke to your mother? A year, maybe more.

So yeah, you said she's really sick, but why no communication? I mean, my mother is a very mentally ill woman, and she's not, there are limits to how much I'm willing to put up with, even from family, as far as asking me to play into delusions and fantasies, and yeah, it may seem callous, but it's just I'm at my limit with it.

Do you make friends in prison? Yeah, I actually make friends pretty easily. I, over the years, I've actually gotten to be a decent people person. I'm always kind of set apart in my mind, at least. I've met some really good people in there. You ever get in fights? Yeah. How'd you do? Better than I thought.

Honestly, I can honestly say that I only lost one fight in what's now coming up on 10 years. I have a pretty decent amount of, I guess you'd call it, respect. I mean, I'm not a big hoss or anything like that and I'm probably middle of the road by most standards. What is your It just gave me that mean streak.

What is your size? I'm six foot and right now I'm 200 pounds, but it oscillates between 170, 200, depending on what I'm doing. Yeah. What are these fights about? I mean, they're few and far between because I don't have, my personality doesn't get me into, like, stupid sh*t, but mostly when people are just trying to get me to do stuff I don't want to do.

I mean, I didn't come to prison for throwing off oppression to put the shackles right back on. Right. How do you pass your time in there? Read, write, work out, focus on my spirituality and stuff like that. So, do people in prison know that you're a virgin? Yeah, I'm very open about everything. What kind of discussions do you have whenever that comes up?

It's pretty open, you know, obviously the jokes and everything. It's very good hearted. I find that the more open you are about things and the more you own it, the more accepting people are. Have you lost your virginity in prison? Nope. I've got plenty of offers, trust you with that. Looking back on his trial, Joseph recalls his defense attorney crying after the guilty verdict was announced.

Joseph was shocked by this rare act of kindness. A stark contrast to the neglect he'd been used to for many years. Under his grandparents' custody, and for most of his life, Joseph has lacked meaningful relationships and personal connections. Since coming to prison, however, Joseph's circle had grown.

Although he hasn't maintained contact with any family members on the outside, behind bars, Joseph has quickly made friends, earned respect and held his own in prison fights. And though Joseph's virginity is often a subject of curiosity, Joseph handles it with self assurance and a bit of humor. Throughout our conversation, Joseph comes across as a decent person who had a hard life and made a rash and terrible mistake.

He now acknowledges his wrongdoing and seeks a future where he can make amends and move ahead with his life. Before wrapping up this interview, I wanted to give Joseph the opportunity to share his final thoughts with anybody who might be listening out there for your situation. I don't do this very often for a couple reasons.

I think you really are a good person. Second of all, you are easy to talk to. You're, you can tell you're not like a stupid person. And then finally, the fact that you've never had sex for with a woman. I want to give out your information and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but. The way somebody can contact you, your DOC number is 1 2 9 3 9 3 8, is that correct?

That is correct. And it's Joseph Johnson, they can just go to JPay or Secures, and they can email you and start a conversation there, I really hope a girl out there hears this and contacts you. I think it'd be great for you to be able to have that. I appreciate that. So yeah, I hope, you know, I hope giving out your number or something like that, somebody can reach out to you.

I know it's happened before with other people I've interviewed, but, you know, women are the ones that normally listen to true crime and stuff like that, and they tend to have the soft heart more than men do. So I hope that somebody reaches out to you, which also when it comes to women and soft heart,

that's kind of another point of, to talk about is that, you know, with Gypsy, she probably got, you know, a lot more people that sympathize with her because she's just a little girl. And sometimes if we really put all the same scenarios together and didn't put a guy in that situation, It doesn't really get as much, you know, publicity or the same kind of publicity, if that makes sense.

Do you agree? I agree. I mean, honestly, do you remember the Slenderman girls? I do not. They were two women that did a sacrifice and someone like just being Slenderman, but they were like considered unattractive. And I had always told people that like t unattractiveness of the woman and the fact that its a woman matters. Absolutely.

Yeah. I'm sure there's like studies on that too, you know, if you, it's, really, if a man does something kind of strange and a woman does the exact same thing, a man will be called creepy. And then there's just like lighter words for the women or nothing at all. So it's a big difference.

They just called my rec, but I appreciate it. I appreciate how you've interviewed. My last word for anyone out there is regrets of the past can lend ambition to the future. And I hope you have a good one, Toby. Hey man, in time you need something, reach out to me, okay? Alright, I will. Take care.

On the next episode of Voices of a Killer. I've taken many victims in my life. I've hurt a number of people. I graduated high school in May and murdered a man on July 2nd. Did you bring up this part where you killed this guy because he was doing stuff to the, or, weird with the kids, or did you use that excuse at court?

No, because I, never said anything like that. I was embarrassed because he had made sexual advances to me and that I did, I wanted to hide that part of my life. I told him, look, if we kill this guy, he's got a whole bunch of money. We can take his money. We can go party. Do you feel, like that had an effect on you from then on where that child came in, that was their blood and you were kind of like the secondhand thought?

Yeah, absolutely. I want to thank Joseph for sharing his story with us today. His ability to be open and honest is what makes this podcast so special. That's a wrap on this episode of Voices of a Killer. A big shout out to Sonic Futures who handled the production, audio editing, music licensing, and promotion of this podcast.

If you want to hear more episodes like this one, make sure to visit our website at voicesofakiller.com. There you can find previous episodes, transcripts, and additional information about the podcast. Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review on Spotify, apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Your feedback helps us improve and reach new listeners. Thank you for your support and we can't wait to share more stories with you in the future. Thank you for tuning in. I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer.